I signed on this morning to discover I had four emails from "USAF Radar Sites". I've never heard of them so I junked 'em. Anyone else receive same?

If I had a nickel for each word I've misspelled over the years, I'd be a very rich man indeed.

Ever notice how the fourth of July always comes on July fourth, unlike Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter and Festis?

Interesting story, I think. My wife and I have standardized on what we feel to be the best wax paper made, but I'll withold the name because this is not the place for commercials. The local supermarkets stopped handling it, so I emailed the manufacturer. Lo and behold they have stopped selling it, but they referred me to an online vendor. Sadly, they only sold in six packs. I surfed search and found an outfit in New York State that sold the individual packages for $1.57 each and they were having free shipping at his time. I ordered three rolls and it arrived here in Texas two days later by Fedxxx. Unbelieveable. They.re now having a fresh meat sale with free shipping. Amazing what you can find on the net, if you have lots of free time!

To Larry Jackson....USAF Radar Sites is another internet radar veterans website. I joined them a few years ago but unsubscribed because it resulted in a whole lot of e-mails that I didn't want. It appears that the webmaster from that organization is going to this web site and "automatically" enrolling veterans that visit it. Recently, I was enrolled again (without my knowledge) and began to receive a large number of e-mails. They provide a link to unsubscribe (which I did) and the e-mails stopped. I don't know the reason why this guy is doing this. Membership in any group should be voluntary, like it is with this group.

Larry:

That USAFRadarsites Veterans web site has hit me three times with automatic enrollment and three times I've had to disenrolled. They're becoming a pain in the you know what. Next time it happens I'm going to see if some Official Action can be taken to stop this Automatic Enrollment Business its becoming a harasment.

G.A. Wickert

Got on Radar Sites Vets yahoo group automatic, have unenrolled so far so good NO more emails, they have alot of you know what to sign you up without your OK

John Tianen may keep his steel belted radials and his toaster -- correct answers to both 70s-rated questions.

Our current times have that 70s feel. I recall at Hanscom AFB, we observed the Massachusetts practice of "odd-even" days for gasoline fill-ups at the exchange gas station. The line was made to circle around the facility. They asked people not to fill up unless the car's tank was less than half full. I remember waiting and waiting, then watching someone's spouse pump maybe two gallons in, and then drive off.

From and abstract of an AF Geophysics Lab paper: "Detection of radar echoes from the optically clear atmosphere in the early 1950's led to vigorous debate within the weather radar community as to their origins. Members of this program later used the radars at Wallops Island, Va., to observe the clear atmosphere, detecting the tropopause by radar in 1966 and confirming that most of the clear air echoes were due to turbulence. Research through the 1950's and 1960's led to improved understanding of stratiform rain systems, hurricanes, and severe convective storms. The first rain parameter diagram was developed in 1957. Doppler radar was used in 1961 to produce the first wind profile from radar measurements and in 1968 to make the first radar observation of a mesocyclone. The research on severe storm dynamics, both at the Air Force radar site in Sudbury, Mass., and in collaboration with the National Severe Storms Laboratory in Oklahoma, laid much of the foundation for the Next Generation Weather Radar (NEXRAD) program. Field work at Wallops Island and at Kwajalein Atoll in the 1970's in support of Air Force reentry vehicle test programs included the first display of analysis products generated from radar data by a computer in real time. In recent years much effort has been devoted to the development of data analysis algorithms for NEXRAD. Other current work includes measurement of wind profiles by UHF Doppler radar and the development of polarization diversity techniques for documenting hydrometer microphysical parameters and processes."

We take for granted watching television weather forecasts, "Here's the radar picture," and seeing in color what's happening. I remember seeing impressive storms on the AC&W radars, though obviously not in the same way.

Windows XP update...According to the Associated Press, Microsoft will stop selling Windows XP on Monday, July 7. You may still be able to get it on machines built before that date. Small mom-and-pop computer builders will still be able to offer it until January and it will still be available on ultra-low cost PCs.

I believe if the Radar Sites Vets webmaster wants people to join his group, he should at least have the courtesy to ask them first. If he monitors this guestbook, I believe he should post an apology or at least a rationale for why he is using this tactic.

As I've mentioned before, I have Windows ME. Maybe, now that Bill Gates is retired, one of his first philantrophic acts will be to come to my haouse and get the bugs out of my system.

I thought Windows XP was a problem filled system? Is that why they're retiring it? I think computers should be like refrigerators. They should work trouble free for at least thirty years, then all the necessary parts will be available for another thirty years, to keep it working. I also think all appliances and automobiles should be built with plug in units, like the old FPS-14. The bad one pops out, the good one takes over, and you take a spare out of the box and replace the bad unit.

Also, by now, there should be thousands of battery exchange stations all around the country, so peopl with electric cars, can go anywhere they want, without taking time to recharge their automobile batteries. And, wheree's that $99 electric lawnmower, and the Rhomba that works on shag carpet? Come you inventive souls. Get crackin!!!

From all I hear, Microsoft is not retiring Windows XP because it's filled with bugs (it's not), but because they have come out with Windows Vista, and they want everyone to ''upgrade'' to Vista. The reason is $$$$. However, all reports are that Vista is full of bugs; maybe those will be fixed some day with Service Pack 2 (same as XP was). Windows ME was never fixed; it reportedly was a ''rush to market'' operating system that never worked right. My home PC came with Windows ME, and I had nothing but problems. It would crash frequently. Finally I upgraded to XP, and have had almost no problems since. My PC at work also runs XP, and it performs well. Further, at this time, my company is avoiding Vista like the plague. To anyone with Windows ME, I say upgrade to XP while you still can.

In the years 1956 thru 1959, I served at Fortuna ACW, Malmstrom AC&W, and the Manual AD Center at Malmstrom. The men I served with were the finest that I ever worked with and knew very well. I surely wish that I could get together with my old crew at Fortuna for they were the very very best in all aspects.

Windows XP....Today.... is the cutoff date for major computer manufacturers to sell machines with Windows XP installed. There are some computer customizers who will be allowed to install XP for a while yet. This, I have had confirmed from a number of sources. FYI...Windows "7" is targeted for release about the third anniversary of "Vista".

My tech advised against EVER getting VISTA! It's so full of bugs that they will be working on it for a long time to come. By the way Walmart has a large supply of XP at a resonable price. Larry U should change over from that ME before they are all bought up. ME was a mistake from the begining--bad as Vista.

I am quite interested with all the negative comments about Vista. It mirrors the stories on many blogs about how Vista will soon be recalled by Microsoft, etc. Companies are avoiding Vista at the moment...that part is true. However, the reason for that delay is that large companies have many ancillary software programs which have to be checked against any new operating system. Also, it is an extremely large capital investment for any large company to switch operating systems. Personally, I have been running Vista for one year now and can simply state that I have had no problems. No problems before SP1 and no problems after SP1.

I have been on Vista for about 4 months now. NO problems. It's as good as XP as far as simply working with it. I don't know what goes on "under the hood" and how it works in that respect but I don't have to. The only thing I didn't like about it was the same thing I didn't like about every other new operating I've ever had. There's a bunch of, usually small, things about it that are not exactly "like the old one". Always some little new thingy to get used to just like when you buy a new car or new TV remote control

The hoo-ha about bugginess and crashing etc and horror stories are strictly bogossiosiousness

Here we are, a speech from the still Cold War era 1976 movie "Network," wherein fictional newscaster Howard Beale exhorts his audience in what might seem timely advice for today: "I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; punks are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone." Well, I'm not going to leave you alone. I want you to get mad. I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first, you've got to get mad. You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, g*ddammit. My life has value." So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

President Ford had his WIN program. Does anyone remember what that stood for? Trivia: There was a short, repetitive tapping noise signal, at 10 Hz, heard on shortwave radio worldwide between July 1976 to December 1989. It was called the "Woodpecker." What was it?

(Do leave my steel-belted radials alone. You can have the toaster. I won't say anything ...)

WIN = Whip Inflation Now

The Woodpecker... signals from a Russian OTH-B radar set. I remembered what WIN was (remember the stupid WIN buttons) but had to Google "woodpecker" to confirm what it was.

Gary...thanks for the Howard Beale diatribe. I hadn't seen it for awhile. Funny, that was 32 years ago and it could've been written yesterday. We can all identify with Howard's frustrations.

Looking back at my STEP program essay, I note that I spelled "defective" wrong.....so much for Error Free Performance frm me. :-)

The 799th AC&W is enjoying a reunion every 2 years in Springfield ,Tn..nice to get re acquainted with such super nice people...would like to also get information on anyone connected with the 626th AC&W or the 32nd, air Div. at Dobbins AFB, Marietta,GA...also, I was assigned to the NORAD Combat Operations Center on Fire Island , Alaska..if anyone knows the wherebouts of anyone who served in that Battle Cage...I was there in 1959 and 1960...

Bill.

We took the course together. I was there from 55 through 58. I think I was able to pass because my father and mother were college grads and a lot of it rubbed off on me.

Do you remember any of these names? Lowell E Futch, Allan B. Rice, Robert W. Meitzen and the late M/Sgt Charles E. Gates, all radar maintenance.

When Gates retired, he went to work at White Sands Proving Ground, Civil Service, and retired from there also. My wife and I still correspond with his widow, and she still lives in the area with her children.

Remember the NCO/Airman's Club we made from a tent that was furnished as the operations tent for our Mobile Radar Site? Mobile. What a laugh.

My uncle, ex WW2 Navy, became a County Marshall in Wichita, Sedgwick County, Kansas. I have a cousin in Homeland Security, Customs.

If I live through this month, I'll be 73. As they say, it's been a heck of a ride.

Gary Jacobs. I watched several friends and accuaintances, enlisted men, go off to OCS and Aviation Cadets. One who went to Cadets, came through Keesler to visit, on his way to preflight training in Florida. He later was dejected, because he washed out of fighter training and they sent him to multi-engine training in Oklahoma. He became a multi-engine pilot.

Gary...your comment about the STEP program reminded me of the STEP program that we had at Honeywell back in the 70's. It stood for:
Strive Towards Errorfree Performance. It was supposed to improve quality...do it right the first time, etc. Well, one of the first things management did was issue everyone a STEP pin to put on their lapel. Problem was that the little thingee that slips over the pin and holds it to your lapel was defectie and broke after one or two times of useage. It was a horrible beginning to a well meaning program.

Chuck: When I worked at General Electric (or one of its successor companies, Martin Marietta or Lockheed Martin) in Valley Forge, PA, we all received motivational coffee mugs with the slogan, ''We Do It Right The First Time'' -- mine had a crack in the handle!

Anyone interested in a freebie? I have (4) coupons good for two free weekday nights at the Aquarius Resort in Laughlin, Nevada. The casino sends them to me all the time and I often throw them away. They are good until August 31. The coupons are a bearer-type so anyone can use them. I derive no benefit from them. Summers are slow at Laughlin and the casino uses this promo to drum up new business. If anyone is interested, e-mail me (jtianen@earthlink.net)your postal address and I'll send you one. This is strictly first-come, first-served.

FYI...Laughlin, Nevada is a resort located on the Colorado River at the southern-most tip of Nevada. It is about 90 miles south of Las Vegas.

This may be of interest to our fellow Radome Members ,especially those who have been stationed at Campion and/or Galena Airport. Myself, Bill Wheat, and a few other men were the first to arrive on the scene of the accident in which Alan J Campion was killed. 2Lt Campion (RO) and 1Lt Nolan R Dotz (Pilot) flying a F94A -(Acft # 49-2519A- were attempting to land after being out on an Air Defense Exercise.The accident happened on 26 November 1950 at 07:25 AST. I am in touch with four of the men who were at Galena at the time. Howard

Gary Jacobs wrote: "Something's wrong, and has been wrong for some time. A Navy friend told me Naval officers run ships, large organizations with officers, enlisted people. AF pilots are solo guys, prized for "me-first" aggressiveness. What makes them good pilots hurts them as leaders." I would like to add my thoughts to that idea. All the military branches have very different cultures and procedures, some of which work better than others toward their various goals. As mentioned above, the Navy puts all their officers and men in danger on ships of various sizes and all have a direct part to play in any combat activity. The Marines have a culture in which every person is a combatant, from the lowest recruit to the highest general, and every Marine is, first and foremost, a rifleman. The Navy realized many years ago that its officer corps should be divided into two separate, but complementary, groups: the command group and the support group. The skills that make up a great commander in battle are far different from those that are needed in a fine support force manager, and the Navy has separate promotion lists for each group. That allows officers who are skilled in the organization and conduct of combat operations to proceed up their ladder while the ones who are best in the technical and logistical areas are free to proceed up their ladders without worrying about having to compete with the fast-burners up the command chain, and retains the technical competence where it is most needed instead of bleeding it into the command line (because that is where almost all upper-level promotions would occur in a single line approach).

The Air Force locked itself into a single-warrior concept when all its fighting men were officer pilots; there were, of course, some enlisted warriors, too, but they were greatly outnumbered by the vast majority who made up the support phalanxes on the ground. Many support officers were also denied the opportunities and visibility afforded to their rated (flying) counterparts. At the same time, USAF developed the concept that only a combat officer could achieve very high rank and eventually become Chief of Staff. Even among middle-management support officers it was obvious that only those with the drive and ambition to air for Chief of Staff would ever be promoted above the rank of Major, and policy dictated that those who did not do so would be tossed out as no longer needed. I must confess that I have been touched by this process, so my viewpoint is somewhat clouded. I do believe that USAF would have benefitted from adoption of the dual-channel approach to officer promotion, because the best of both groups could thereby have been accommodated without attempting to force the more technical and less-combative officers to have to invade the domain of the pilot-warriors and compete in an unfair arena. Do we really need an Air Force in which all its Colonels and Generals were once pilots? (I realize that generalization is not exact, but it is largely true.)

I understand that the Air Force has changed dramatically since my retirement in 1980, and that more USAF personnel now actually face enemy fire on the ground than was the case when I served. I commend the development of a more combat-oriented cadre as I believe all military organizations should have reasonable expectations to face hostile forces and be able to function. (I don't know how well I'd have done under those circumstances, but hopefully I'd have been able to be trained for them.)

These are just some thoughts I have had, and they're not particularly well-worded or organized. Do bear in mind that I was a Captain who was RIFed after 15 years service and finished out my 20 as an enlisted man (E-4 to E-6), so my ideas are not truly without bias.

A relative of mine was a navigator on a B17 during WW2 and flew many missions over Germany. When he wasn't navigating he was wearing one flack (flac?) suit and sitting on two others. He was discharged when the war ended and his enlistment was up.

He was called back during the Korean War, but refused flying status, so they made him a supply officer. He was once given a bad efficiency report because he didn't drink, and saw no reason to join the officers club. This came back to haunt him as he was later passed over twice for major, and was scheduled to be riffed out. He appealed, took a lengthy leave, travelled around getting letters of recommendation from other officers with whom he'd served and took all of these, along with his own lengthy explanation of the report to the Pentagon. He was allowed to remain on active duty at his then rank of captain, and was promoted to major on the next round.

Then he was sent, on active duty, to a university with a tri-mester program, earned a degree in meteorology, and became a weather officer.

He retired as Lt. Col. and ultimately was promoted to full bird.

The squeaky wheel get's the grease.

George Carlin. There are many controversial figures from the 50's, 60's, and 70's. To name a few celebrities, Jane Fonda, Joan Baez, The Smother's Brothers, John Denver, Willie Nelson, Bob Dillon. Their personal lives do not negate their skills in their chosen careers.

Some of the worst behaved civilians have become great soldiers. Conversely, many men and women are just not suited to the regimentation and the sometimes blind obedience to orders, required by the military. For that matter, the great majority of men and women in the US, even during wartime, never served in the military at all.

Whose to say whose the better man. Those who tried to serve, and failed, or those who never tried at all?

Earlier here we have mentioned various ways we overcame the SAC jamming, and they finally instructed us not to do that anymore. We were in fact, disobeying orders, by doing something we were not supposed to do.


we interfered with an established training program, and probably destroyed the trainees morale in doing so. Still I/we are proud that we were able to track them, much to their chagrin.

The military depends, albeit covertly, on resourceful people who can get things done, in certain circumstances, by getting around existing dictates. The end justifies the means.

1984 by George Orwell is a classic best seller. Not because it's a go by for a utopian society, but the exact opposite. Think about it. We are closer to it today, than ever before. Do we really want one mind, one party, one law? I don't think so.

An interesting article in this months AAA magazine re an aircraft museum in Galveston, TX. You can get a ride on a B-25 for just over a couple of hundred bucks, and the pilot might be Dick Cole, who was co-pilot to Jimmy Doolittle, on the famous 1942 raid against the Japanese homeland. He's probably older than I am, ey?

It's hard to believe that a pilot that took part in the Doolittle raid would still be flying today. Think about it...That person would be approaching 90 years old. At that age, eyesight, reflexes, hearing, etc. deteriorate. Doesn't the FAA or some other agency have to certify a person's fitness to fly? My Dad (a WWII vet) is still alive and approaching 90. He can barely walk and his eyesight and hearing are not that good. He still drives and that bothers me knowing his condition.

I know that some of U will just consider this sour grapes. But...I left the AF with a very bitter taste in my mouth. As a S/Sgt with over 7 years in grade I used to have a beer at the club with M/SGTS that I had more time in grade than they had in the service. I was in the air police/security field and promotions were almost non existant.And that included the lower 3 grades.We worked in freezing cold and stifling heat and never even got an "atta boy".We, cooks, supply, motor pool were looked down on by the "brains". So...if I had it to do all over I would have got drafted, did my 2 years and went somewhere I was more appreciated as I did after 10 years with the AF. Sorry..but I just felt I had to say this. Bill Wells

Leadership and management abilities have to be prized and nurtured. I had heard the current fighter pilot crown invoking Billy Mitchell. Just so. The fighter pilots are taking the role of the admirals denying a sea change in military history. The UAV has arrived in a big way. Clinging to better and, of course, massively expensive fighters in Cold War quantities is akin to building the next WWI era generation battleships. That the managers could not contain the costs of the fighter after apparently learning nothing about the $1 billion per copy B-2 was a very bad sign, not to mention the lesson Secretary of Defense Cheney gave the Navy with their next generation fighter: cancelled. By the way, in retrospect, was building the B-1B a good idea? Note the recent NY Times story on how the Army is quietly developing its own UAV capabilities, making them work, and work well. Thinking outside the box. That's the Billy Mitchell types. I wonder if they are piloted by rated officers, or need be. (That might be the base issue all along.)

We inherited our officer corps traditions from the British, an “officer and a gentlemen.” Hence the college diploma is the entrée, the Academies being the gold standard. Imagine an alternative system of looking at your sharp, proven NCOs, and having a talk. “How would you like to be an officer?” Or, you can have the theater arts major, the general studies major walk in the door and pin the gold bars on. That was the case in my day in 1978. Training for young lieutenants was horrible, akin almost to hazing. I worked for one certifiably crazy lieutenant colonel who was eventually relieved, but not before he did serious damage to several careers. My successor at that assignment left the AF. It was a sign when he told his secretary, “No phone calls, no visitors,” thereafter he sat in the dark (lights out) in his office, doing what, no one knew.

I recall in the 1980s, one of the controversies in the officer corps was whether your spouse should work. The custom was officer’s wives volunteer only, they are ladies and do not work. Really. Secretary of Defense Weinberger had to issue an edict about how, yes, it was acceptable for wives to work. I recall attending public affairs officer conferences at which a part of the organized banquet activities was a “dirty jokes contest,” at which various persons, usually drunk, would go to the microphone and have at it. Officers and gentlemen at work. I thought then that it was an invitation for some kind of really dumb, embarrassing incident. (Tailhook had yet to happen.)

Last thing, the STEP program was intended originally for airmen who didn’t test well, but were good performers. It drifted into getting people promoted who were going to be promoted anyway, only earlier. It led as well to officer involvement in the enlisted process, and the favoritism thing. The general’s racquetball partner is (surprise) a STEP promotee. Add to that the less-than dignified, “here comes the Old Man with your stripes,” in the workplace. Involve his family. Make it an occasion. Or, walk in and hand it to him at the coffee bar. “Here ya go. Great job.”

Finally, one of our generals, a successful one, never heard a shot fired in combat. Yet he turned out pretty good: Dwight David Eisenhower.

When I tried to join in late 1953, the Korean truce had been declared, and there was a temporary freeze on enlistments, according to my recruiter. Since I had only a ninth grade education, and no High School GED, he said I shouldn't waste my time taking the AFQT. It had 100 questions, and they were accepting only those who passed with a category one score. I asked to take the test anyway. I scored a 97, was accepted for enlistment, and left for basic two weeks later. They forgot to tell me, when I passed the test, it would be two weeks before I would leave. I quit my job. I was on my own and struggled to survive those two weeks, taking a job as a dishwasher, just to have enough to pay my rent and a little to eat. I wanted to be in the band or in the dental lab, since I had civilian experience in both. When I took the tests in basic for placement, I was selected for electronics. I didn't have a clue. I thought I was going to be an electrician, and I was afraid of electricity, or at least wary of it. That turned out to be a good thing. I mention this, because I had no say about choosing my career field. When I finally discovered what it was, I was glad and somewhat amazed, to have been selected for radar maintenance.

I later learned that we really are better than anyone else, including fighter pilots, and especially Air Police, Scope Dopes, Cooks, etc.

JUST KIDDING!!!!

Bill. I don't know if you could at the time, but you may have been able to retrain in an AFSC of your choice. I tried to transfer to Missles, but was nixed on that because my career field was fozen, as there was a shortage of 30332B personnel. I know a lot of people were retraining into radar maintenance, including a lot of riffed officers. The NCOIC of our Radar Maintenance Section was a former WW2 waist gunner.

I can only feel for you. Air Police is a thankless job for the most part. I pulled one night of guard duty at Sampson in mid December. I can't imagine having to do that year round.

The popular TV series' (serii?) JAG, NCIS, etc. leads us all to believe that all their troops are pilots, ex Special Forces, 100% geniuses, etc. I don't know, but in the real world, I imageine a great many of the people are ex Air Police, Clerks, etc. who just bnefitted from the luck of the draw. I think most of the selection process was programmed by simple old supply and demand. Don't ever be ashamed of having been in the Air Police. I always respected them, albeit there was always a lot of kidding going on between one AFSC and another.

It's the same way in civilian life. My dad can lick your dad, etc., ad infinitum.

PS: I did, while on my first hitch, pass the High School GED and later the College GED, which was recognized in the AF as having completed one year of college. 33 of us took the college GED test. This was at the 685th, in Las Cruces, NM. At the time I was A/1C. Two officers flunked it. I don't remember for sure, but I think they were scope dopes, or was it cooks, or air police? :)

This might be a surprse to all you Magnetron & Tube dusters in maint. but was real happy to get out of Keesler as a Scope Dope which by the way helped getting a job with FAA as a controller(that is another story)in defense of our comrads in the Air Police ,Food Service & supply many of which had no choice of career fields, but I must say with the the chance of pcs at Keesler as one of them I made sure I passed the simple Scope Dope course

I couldnt cross train--I was told my affc was needed and frozen.
by the way Larry I was at the 685th in 1956--took the college GED and passed. It was for 1 year of college and it was used when I got out.worked nights as a cop and went to college days on the GI Bill. Stayed in law enforcement 35 years and retired as a Chief of Police.I just couldn't support my family on a Staffs pay.Did make a lot of good people in there that I'm still in contact with today.By the way..after colledge I was offered a 1st Lieutenant's rank by my chief who was a bird col in the reserves. Told him to keep it!!

Now, here's an idea that the Carlin case brings up. I heard this from a senior NCO in the early 1980s. At first, I thought he was wrong. (I was a first lieutenant at the time.) When I reflected on it, maybe he had something. He said, "We're too quick to throw people out. We don't allow them to make mistakes and learn from them." My memory fades, but I think a bust in rank, let alone an Article 15 on your record, and you may as well make other career plans. You're finished in the AF. It was not always so. The Article 15 was designed to be a vanishing item.

In the officer corps, the "one mistake career" had the effect of making officers overly cautious, toadies, or seekers of "special assignments" that were low-risk, usually not involving command of units, comprised of people who could make mistakes. Be an aide, be a speech-writer or "special projects" guy. Get ahead.

With regard to profanity, I recall when I arrived at Lackland in 1971, language I seldom heard unless usually in "fighting words" was a matter of course. Moreover, it had the intended effect of getting attention, with that mixture of hilarity and horror that was part of military life. I thought the Southern guys were the funniest, even when they were chewing you out. Now I understand that TIs cannot use profanity at all.

One does not expect it from girls in the mall. Once I had a close relative, a male teen, tell me to go F-myself. I sat for a bit. Went into his room. I said, "Stand up." He said, "Don't hit me." I said, "You want to talk like man, you want to be careful. Guys will take you up on that. You gotta learn something now. I wouldn't have hit you. At least, I don't think so." Never heard the F-word and me linked from him again. He was a good boy, just stupid. Learning to calibrate his language.

Here's a 1971 Lackland memory. I recall running in tee-shirt, gym shorts and combat boots on an asphalt track. I think we ran a mile. Now I was age 17, but even then the impact shocks would chatter your teeth. AF Doctor Kenneth Cooper had previously coined the word "aerobics" for such activity. Later the AF would adopt running as a measure of fitness, something we take for granted now, but not always so.

I have two rolled up group pix of my training flight at Sheppard AFB taken in Oct 51. flight 2101. anyone there with me at the time and wants a copy contact me. They are still in the orginal tubes as issued!----Bill

I have two rolled up group pix of my training flight at Sheppard AFB taken in Oct 51. flight 2101. anyone there with me at the time and wants a copy contact me. They are still in the orginal tubes as issued!----Bill

FYI See www.msn.com "Today On MSN" George Carlin. 27 things he knew.

Regarding the death of George Carlin, I have sympathy for those close to him for their loss but I was not a fan. I found him offensive and, for his selfish benefit, perpetuating the drug and crude language culture which is evident in the boardrooms and on the playgrounds today.

If I said it before, I'm saying it again. RE: Pinetreeline website. For Cartwright, 922nd AC&W Sqdn., Photos, Squadron Emblems, etc. are available on this website. I don't know how to transfer same.

Here is an excellent on-line book dealing with missile and space interceptor and radar systems; while it deals mainly with Army systems, some of us Air Force types should also find it interesting (I know I did): ''Seize the High Ground - The Army in Space and Missile Defenseþ,'' http://www.smdc.army.mil/2008/HistoryBook.asp (the last chapter includes one system I myself have had involvement with here at Raytheon Missile Systems - Tucson). Enjoy!

From George Carlin's website:

1954-1956 - Receives three court-martial and numerous Article Fifteens (form of punishment just below court-martial). Attitude toward military service can be discerned by noting history of changes in rank: A/B, A/3c, A/2c, A/3c, A/2c, A/3c, A/B, A/3c.
1957 - General discharge under honorable conditions from USAF. Soviet Union returns to previously relaxed state.

I checked with Encarta which referred me to a PBS Sow. The truckers are hauling supplies to the diamond mines/fields in far northern Canada.

God Bless Bob Caggiano for posting that website for the Basic Training photos. I lost mine many years ago, but today I found it again! Of course, it didn't have all of the names signed on the back like mine did, but hey, It's Great! How can I get a copy of this photo?

I sent in my Lackland photo several years ago....don't remember how long it took before it was posted, but it wasn't too long. Maybe they have reduced their staff on this project. Maybe they lost it...send it in again maybe.

I just had an email response from T. L. English, Chief, History & Research, 37th Training Wing at Lackland. He said they are not allowed to sell copies of the photos, but we can download from the website.

I also noted at that website that a turnaround time for most photos is mentioned. If that time is long gone, then a resend would likely be a good idea.

Video about SAGE on UTUBE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06drBN8nlWg

RE: History Channel Show Ice Road Truckers;

They are airing shows now that feature truck runs down the frozen Hamilton River and accross the Artic Ocean. One trucker heading south was hauling creates that he said came from the military. I was wondering if that crated stuff was from the Canadian Dew Line.

G. Wickert

George Carlin is dead. He was in the Air Force (I hesitate to call him a veteran because he was kicked out because of his bad behavior) and was a B-47 radar technician. I am really surprised at the praise he is getting in the press. The chairman of the Kennedy Center calls him a great American comedian. I have watched him on HBO, and he was definitely talented in a sick kind of way. I personally found him to be offensive and could never watch him for very long. Every time I walk through a mall and hear 12 and 13 year old girls routinely using the F word and worse, I think of guys like Carlin and how they have contributed to the coarseness and vulgarity that is rampant in our culture today. I'm not a prude, but today's popular culture makes me want to puke at times.

This for Herk....Buddy Knox and Party Doll are alive and well at
buddyknox.com

I have a question. Has anyone had any luck getting their Basic Training photo posted on http://www.bmtflightphotos.af.mil/ ?

I sent in my Squadron Basic Training photo almost 4 months ago and it still is not posted on their website. I understand they have a very small staff to post these photos, but I never even got an acknowledgement of my e-mail. I'm beginning to think my e-mail never made it through. Has anyone had any success?

Regarding having Basic Training Photos posted...Mine was posted a number of years back. It took several months before it was posted and that was in the very beginning when only a few hundred total were on the website. I had mailed mine in on a CD at the time (still on dial-up at the time).

Stationed at Yuma County Airport, later known as Vincent AFB, Yuma, Ariz. 1956-1957. Puntzi Mt. AFS,British Columbia, Canada 1957-1958.
Joelton AFS, Tennessee 1958-1960. Mt. Laugua AFS, California 1960-1961. McClellan AFB, Calif. 552nd AEW&C Wg, 964th Sq. 1961-1964.
McCoy AFB, Florida 552nd Wg, 966th AEW&C Sq. 1964-1965. Stephenville
AFS, Newfoundland, Canada 1965-1966.Malmstrom AFB, Montana 28th Norad
Region (SAGE) 1966-1968. McClellan AFB, Calif.552nd AEW&C Wg, 964th Sq
1968-1972.Transferred to Air Training Command and served 15 more years in the Air Force Recruiting Command.

Again, Ah yes, the LPs. I still have about 1200 LPs, a whole bookcase of reel to reel tapes, and even an eight-track player that works.
Every day at least one of the LPs gets played. I hope to get around to playing every one of them at least once more before the power quits. At 75, I still have a chance. Best to all, Walt

Riddle. Today is the real world title of my favorite movie.

LP's Instead of replacing our audio/video equipment with the latest, we simply add to what we already had. I enjoy using my Timex Sinclair Computer, and my TI Computer, as I watch my Heathkit TV, and listen to my Cub Scout project crystal set. Ham Code keys, WU Keys, Short Wave receiver, single side band, record Cylinders, thick 78 records, 33 1/3, 45, LP's, wire, reel to reel, 8 tracks, casettes, CD's, diskettes, DVD's, Blue Ray, cranial implants. Whoops! Forget I mentioned the latter. Hangar 51.

We're currently in a quandry over our cable company's constant moving of our favorite channels from existing options to higher priced options. I'm takinmg a serious look at AT&T's U-service. Does anyone know if it's compatible with Windows ME?

It was 47 years ago this week that I went to the induction center to take my physical and get sworn into the Air Force. Three of us were escorted by the recruiter to Syracuse, NY. After taking the physical, I was told there was a problem with my chest X-ray and that I could not be sworn in. I would have to visit a cardiologist for further evaluation. The other two recruits were sworn in and went on to Lackland. The following day, I visited the cardiologist and underwent a thorough evaluation. He said he could find nothing wrong and gave me a clean bill of health. It seems that the original X-ray was only about 5" X 6" and at that small size it was difficult to read. I was then sent home and told to await further orders. About ten days later, I went through the process again (succesfully that time) and was sworn in. I often wonder what path my AF career would have taken if I had beed sworn in earlier. Maybe there would not have been a demand for radar repairmen at that time and I would have wound up doing something different for my four years.

A few years ago my cable company sent me a letter about a rate increase, "because of competition." Hmm, now isn't competition supposed to make prices go down? I thought, enough of this, I'm going to get a satellite dish. I turned in my cable box. I never got around to getting the dish. I found I watched less television. This was good. I finally hooked my television to an exterior antenna, one I used for my FM radio. Works good enough. Most nights the television never comes on. People are surprised when they mention a show and I'll say, oh, I don't have cable. You don't? No. Zounds.

I can remember being at Keesler when the new wonder came out: cassette tapes. Of course, unauthorized taping would lead to the death of the record industry, or so it was said.

Saw the Who live in New Orleans, so loud it was painful and I stood with my fingers in my ears most of the time. Your body actually resonated with the sound, a little scary. Of course, great fun, great show, you had to be young and stupid to have fun like that.

A fellow introduced this Iowa boy to something I hadn't had before, a Southern item, he said. Pecan pie. What kind of pie is made with nuts? Ah, a very, very good one as it turned out. Didn't care much for those Southern crawdads, though. I was amazed when I saw how they were eaten, and that people would actually want them. Never got grits, either. I wonder if they still make Dixie beer? Beers were 25 cents at the Airman's Club, and, there were "2 for 1" nights. A fellow could get hammered on $1, and many did. Young, stupid, drunk. The three horsemen of foolishness.

The answer to the riddle is...The Longest Day. (Summer Solstice)

John. Did you also go to Lackland? You didn't say. Perhaps Sampson was closed by then?

Gary. I'm with you on the crawdads. (Mud bugs) I think they're called crawfish along the Gulf Coast, including Houston. When I was a kid in Kansas we used 'em for fish bait, or just carried them around to scare the girls.

Larry Jackson...47 years ago was 1961. Sampson had been closed as a basic training center for several years. I went to Lackland.

Reading about the music years ago is interesting. I had over 2000 LPs that I sold on E-bay. If you all remember that back in the days it was $1.00 cheaper to buy Monotone albums than Stereo. I had all the original Beatle albums in mono. I found out later that the mono's were worth more than the stereos cause they were rarer. I also had a tone of 45's. The first one I bought was in 1956. It was Party Doll by Buddy Knox. Those were the days.

A little on a few topics:

Last month we had a discussion about cigarettes and advertising. Check out this Web site, historical, humorous, horrifying:

http://lane.stanford.edu/tobacco/index.html

The history of electronics is better, faster, smaller. Our surround-sound stereo was pre-figured in "quadra-phonic," that never quite caught on, maybe ahead of its time. I still have a fond spot for those vintage stereo recievers built like tanks, glowing radio bands that illuminated "STEREO," lots of switches, with, of course the state-of-the art reel-to-reel player connected, not to mention the phonograph. I used to have tapes with every 12 seconds "zap" of the radar antenna turning. Now with a 12-cd player in my trunk, capable of MP3, I could listen to hours and hours of music, or books, and have. Scratch-free, stretched tape free, etc. Still, there was something about getting a new LP, the cover art, the anticipation ...

Memorials: I'm in favor of including everyone, but not to the extent that the memorial looks like the Sgt. Pepper album cover. Make them, "To all who served." I think when I was on TDY remote assigment, my spouse and son helped, too. I served when there were WAFs and frequently they were treated absymally, and even went integrated, post-WAF. Later in my career as an officer I watched a lieutenant colonel whose office was across the hall from mine go to prison for taking liberties with the women who worked for him. Much changed when he came back. (By the way, we don't have a shortage of young men eligible for military service, we have a shortage of men who volunteer to serve. Women make up that difference. Says something about us?)I had women fighter pilots in my office, who taught fighter pilots how to be fighter pilots. Send them into combat? They wanted it.

Finally, the AF is living under a cloud now. Firings. The tanker contract fiasco, or fiascos. Something's wrong, and has been wrong for some time. A Navy friend told me Naval officers run ships, large organizations with officers, enlisted people. AF pilots are solo guys, prized for "me-first" aggressiveness. What makes them good pilots hurts them as leaders. I thought, hmm, Secretary of Defense Cheney fired General Dugan, now you have the current object lesson. Hard to argue that getting fired helps your service. Thoughts?

Ah yes, the LP's. I remember belonging to the Columbia Record Club. You got 4 or 5 "free" albums of your choice, with the understanding that you would buy 4 or 5 more in the next 12 months. On the surface it was not too bad of a deal. Problem was that every few weeks they would send you a notice that they were going to send you another album UNLESS you sent back the refusal notice within a week. Potentially, you could end up with many albums over a year if you didn't send back those refusal notices. I managed to jump through the hoops and fulfilled my obligation and only ordered what I wanted.
Now, cancelling the club membership was another hurdle that you had to wade through. It was worse than cancelling the infamous AOL. Still have those LP's...Dave Brubeck, Frank, Count Basie.

Even though I was a 30352 (P-1), am a retired former Senior Member of the ISA, and a member of the CAP Cadets, Communications Squadron, Wichita, Kansas, I always had problems with the really complicated and sophisticated electronics. Let's see, back then solid state was pretty much limited to diodes. I really had problems with incandescent bulbs, fuses, and that little Pacman light I could never quite synchronize. Now it's PC's. There must be a company out there that will take over control of my computer and fix it for me. Help!

Cyd Charise died. Only 86. My all time favorite looker.

I still use Windows 98. Works great!

The Pentagon misled Congress about security issues at Peterson Air Force Base, vastly understating the threat an attack would pose to NORAD, before the nation's air and space defense command moved there in May from Cheyenne Mountain, a classified document suggests.

Military leaders reported to Congress on March 3 that a Systems Effectiveness Assessment of Peterson's Building 2, where the nation's homeland security nerve center is located, identified "several physical security problems."

The assessment actually was more pointed and pessimistic, saying that "the existing security system at Peterson AFB supporting Building 2 would fail if attacked by even a low-level threat."

The assessment said the current physical security system at Building 2 has a 6 percent probability of effectiveness against a low-level threat and a 0 percent probability of effectiveness against either a medium or high threat, as recounted in a Statement of Facts compiled by the Government Accountability Office as part of the GAO's review of the Pentagon's March report. The Gazette obtained a copy of the GAO draft report. An Air Force spokeswoman on Monday declined to define what low-, medium- or high-level threats are, saying the information is classified.

The Pentagon outlined mitigation measures, but those are either unfunded or only in design stages, the Statement of Facts said. The military report didn't tell lawmakers whether the measures would enable Peterson to achieve Protection Level 1, the highest level.

That raises questions about the security of the headquarters of the nation's premier defense commands - North American Aerospace Defense Command, the binational defense agency with Canada that shares its commander with the nation's homeland security command, Northern Command
From Rocky Mountain News 6/17/2008

First we gave you know who thousands of rounds of artillary shells to convert to IED's. Now we allow hundreds of you know whos to escape from prison in Afghanastan. This is going to accelerate the you know what. I'm glad I'm not running for you know what. I'm glad, gladder, most glad, gladdest that I won't be elected to you know what and have to make those tough you know which kind of decisions, that put our country and our lives in peril. I'm trying to be politically correct here, there and elsewhere.

Tom. Do you have any more comments on WAFS? :-)

News Item: It was announced today that France will be rejoining the NATO military command after an absense of more than 40 years.

Great News!

Welcome back mes amis.

Did I spell that correctly? Do not come back with, "No. That is spelled THAT".

Tom. When y'all depart on the 19th, does that mean this site's message area will go on redtime?

c!est la vie Wonder what that will cost us

Regarding Windows XP....Microsoft says that June 30 is the deadline yet earlier this year they relented and said that manufacturers could continue to load a version of it on notebook computers. I strongly suspect that it will still be available if you know where to look for it. You probably won't be able to get it in a Dell, HP or other major brand but will still be able to obtain it if you buy a custom-built PC like I did. In fact, the place where I bought my PC said that they will continue to offer it as long as it is available. I got the impression that meant beyond the end of June.

For what it's worth, none of the radar sites I served at had any female personnel. I'm not saying that there weren't any that did, just that I never served with any. The one exception was at POADS (Adair AFS)--there was a female Captain there in one of the Hq maintenance offices, and I think the station Public Affairs Officer was female. Admittedly, my service began in 1960 and ended in 1980, by which time I did serve with some female Computer Programmers.

David in Dallas

We had WAFs at 637th Othelo AFS 1972-1974. I believe in orderly room and Radar Ops.

I've been trying to find an online computer repair person/place or thing. Now that I'm old and feeble and demented and lazy and frugal, all I want is something that requires no effort, or expense, on my part. There are plenty of places that have downloads, and sign ons, etc. but they all want money up front, and then they expect you to know something, and actually expect you to do things, like select the file you want to delete, or click on this. Hey, if I were that smart, and wealthy,I'd hire a live in repair person. I want something that takes over the computer, repairs everything, eliminates the unnecessaries, speeds everything up, and then goes away. I've got all the latest electronics. Windows ME, 56K Dial Up, and a giant paper clip thing hanging off the monitor, where I can stick my tired old eyes right up against the thing I'm trying to read. Oh, yes, I also have a Canon printer/ copier/ coffee pot.

Any suggestions on some product you know to be reliable, trustworthy, loyal, etc.?

Larry Jackson: Step 1 -- get rid of Windows ME!!! It's a piece of crap AND no longer supported by Microsoft. Upgrade to Windows XP as soon as possible. However, do not go to Windows Vista (at least, not at this time) -- too many bugs. Step 2 -- sign up for high-speed / broadband Internet access (many affordable options exist); dial-up is downright archaic is this day and age. Your printer / copier sounds okay. Keep the coffee pot. Upgrade to Eyeballs 2008.

In 1977, during a cross-country trip, I decided to show my wife where I was stationed for a year (Keesler AFB). I drove on base and proceeded to the Triangle Area and the 3383rd Squadron. I parked outside my old barracks and told my wife that this had been my home for almost a year. I was very surprised when I saw females in uniform coming and going from the same building that I had lived in. In the 15 years since I had left Keesler, the Air Force had gone co-ed.

Tom. Eyeballs 2008. Are you hinting I need some new glasses, or a visit to the Opthamologist?

MSN still supports ME, albeit reluctantly. McAfee does not. Each time I ask MSN tech support for a solution to a problem, they send me a 12,000,000 page instruction on how to cure corruption. They think I live in DC?

There were WAFS at Keesler in 1953, but the barracks weren't coed.

Let's see, I suppose I should add some additional and more-specific information about the female troops at radar sites from my active-duty days. From all I observed and heard, there was a real mix of female types -- just as there was a real mix of male types. Nothing here is intended to sound sexist or biased, only factual.

When I completed 3041 school at Keesler AFB in April 1976, at least four female 2Lt's there also were assigned to radar stations: Cambria AFS, Empire AFS, Fortuna AFS, and North Truro AFS (if I remember correctly). I'm sure about the ones who went to Fortuna AFS and North Truro AFS, as I saw them again in July/August that year at the two-week ADCOM 3000 Course at Ent AFB. From what I gathered, three of these four were well-respected and generally like. The fouth, well, she was another story, mentioned near the end of this entry.

At Fort Fisher AFS when I was there (April 1976 - August 1979), there were several female airmen in technical positions. One was in Power Production, but she soon transfered to Admin. One was at our local GATR site; she was fairly competent, but gave everone the impression that she was more interested in being cute than being technical. Another one was at our remote GATR site at Newport, NC (R-16); she was quite technically competent, but got involved in some controversy. Then there were female airmen or NCO's in 701st RADS Operations, Motor Pool, Medical Aid Station, and Admin./Personnel. There were also several enlisted females in our tenant unit (Det. 5, 14th MWS) in Operations and in Admin.

At North Truro AFS when I was there (August 1979 - October 1981), we had one female airman each in the search radar shop and in the height-finder radar shop. The former was quite competent and nice, and fit in well; the other one was competent but had a serious attitude problem. We had one female airman at our GATR site who was very competent, and was also assigned to various additional duties like photographer and librarian. [We also had a GATR troop who was a male at the time -- married with two children -- but who is now a female ... but that's a story for another day.] One female SSgt was in Materièl Control, and she was quite good at her job. There was a quiet, shy female airman in Power Production who reportly was also quite competent. Then there was one female airman in Operations who was a ''Girls Gone Wild'' personality type; however, after she became pregnant and gave birth, she settled down literally overnight and became one really responsible young lady -- I've never seen such a change! In fact, I heard from her a few months ago; she's married with grown children now, and has several grandchildren.

I don't know how many Air Force women stayed in technical fields like radar or radio maitenance, or for how long they stayed. I met one lady who was working in the ARSR-4 radar facility (as of May 2001) at Tyndall AFB who got her start in the AN/FPS-35 search radar tower at Montauk AFS (where she met her husband). So, at least one woman has stayed in radar maintenance for the long haul.

Now, regarding the female 2Lt who went to North Truro AFS: She was a skinny black girl from Mississippi who was really outspoken and who really hated cold weather. She hated North Truro AFS because of the cold winters there. She ended up causing a bit of trouble, though, but for an unrelated reason. She had an affair with a married NCO who was assigned to the Dining Hall ... and secrets don't keep well at small sites. His wife soon found out, and she and the female 2Lt got into a fist fight right thre in the chow hall one day (this was witnessed by many persons who were still there when I was assigned there a few years later, and the incident was also documented in her OER, a copy of which was still inside the desk I inherited). Reportedly, she got off with virtually no punishment since she was a double minority; however, her next assignment was Shemya AFS! How's that for a reward?! If she hated the cold winters at North Truro AFS, I can only imagine how she liked the weather at Shemya! I never heard any more about her after that.

Anyway, the point here is, from the mid 1970's and beyond, there were quite a few women at radar stations. Just like their male counterparts, some fit in well, while others had problems or caused problems. Over all, though, I'd have to say women fit in as well as one could expect.

I agree with Tom Page about upgrading to a better PC. If you are having problems with your old PC, you are often better off to junk it and get a new one. I recently scrapped a PC that was about 4-5 years old. It had a Windows XP operating system which I liked. I was able to get a new PC built locally and loaded with XP, which is difficult or impossible to get anymore if you buy a new PC at any of the usual places. Going with Vista was not an option because I run a small business, and my old software (XP-compatible) works great for me and all my clients use it. The new PC has an upgraded processor which increases the speed of doing everything. Since my old keyboard, monitor, and mouse were still OK, I paid less than $500.00 for the upgrade.

As for an internet service provider, get rid of dial-up ASAP unless it is your only alternative. I have DSL ( available from most phone companys unless you live in a rural area) and it works great. Once you have a high-speed connection, you'll never go back to dial-up.

I am reminded of the talk a year or two ago on Radomes about women in our career field. At the time, the discussion centered on a plaque that was to commemorate an AFS (I believe it might have been in New York) with some of the words on the plaque stating: “to the men who served.” The word men prompted a discussion about whether or not the word men was sexist and therefore inappropriate.

Simply put, my Air Force time, 1960-1967, found no women---NONE---at any AFS where I was stationed. Those stations were Kirksville, MO and Finland, MN. I spent four years in Germany at Ramstein AFB and of course there were women stationed on that large base. However, when I went to work at the Kindsbach Cave, there were no women---NONE.

The discussion of women in ops and maintenance in our mutual career fields, located at various Air Force Stations, has to do with ones age. My eight years served without women co-workers is exactly the opposite of Tom Page's experience. I will leave it to others who might wish to look for any significance in either of our experiences.

2 cents regarding Windows XP. As of June 30, Microsoft is discontinuing the sale of Windows XP.

Happy Fathers Day!

Did we ever have WAF's at radar sites. Not when I was in, but maybe later? I ask because women now serve in combat.

I just bought a p-38 can opener on eBay. I used to have one on my dogtags. I don't know what happened to it. I wonder if you can get through airport security wearing one. Probably so, ey?

I recently watched National Treasure - Book of Secrets. That's a true story, you know, as is the original. Maybe not.

I know the secret warehouse in the Indiana Jones movie is real. You know, the one where they keep all of the 500 MPG carburators.

Larry: YES! WAFS were at Radar Sites case in point 667th AC&W SQ. Selfridge AFB MI. 1958 was there worked with them in ops. and dated them (another story)

When I was on active duty (1975 - 1984), there were a number of women at ADCOM radar sites ... but the term ''WAFS'' was considered taboo by then. At the two radar stations at which I served -- Fort Fisher AFS and North Truro AFS -- we had women in various technical work centers -- in one case or the other, the radar work centers (search and height), the GATR (radio) work centers, and in Materièl Control, in addition to Operations. Some of the other radar sites also had female C-E-M Maintenance Officers. Mostly, the women fit in well. Mostly.

Sounds like they were mainly at bases.

Has anyone heard of Aaron Allen? I just got an e-mail from him, titled what to do with de-miled B-52's. I didn't open it.

I was the Ops Sup in the 963rd AWACS 76to 80 and we had female airman on flying status,they were Radar oper. The problem was when we went TDY and had To RON they got a room by their selves wereas TSGT and below had to double up, other than that I never had any problems with them.

BIG MISTAKE on my last, it was not the 667th AC&W SQ it was the 661st at Selfridge the 667th was in Iceland and sorry to say the WAFS would not hve fit in very well at that time on that remote site, for reasons ??????

Larry Jackson: Aaron Allen is one of our members, aaron.nancy@verizon.net. In fact, he helps Gene maintain the Site Rosters.

Also, women were at samll radar site, not just lrage bases. You should read *ALL* the entries.

Larry Jackson: Aaron Allen is one of our members, aaron.nancy@verizon.net. In fact, he helps Gene maintain the Site Rosters.

Also, women were at small radar sites, not just large bases. You should read *ALL* the entries.

I read all of the entries. I just don't remember them. I also have trouble remembering them.

To top it off, I gave up getting an answer re Aaron, and deleted the e-mail. Now I'll never know what the use is for de-miled B-52's. What is de-miled, anyway?

Larry Jackson:
I have been on my soap box for years preaching for the return of the draft. We get a better cross mix of the country and don't depend on the few who really wish to serve our country. I remember quite well that in the early days of Desert Storm, there was a female National
Guardsman whose unit was being called up, stating on live TV '.........I didn't join the guard to go to war, I joined to get an education'..........or something along those lines. Getting an education (with my tax dollars) is a perk for 'going to war' for your country. Everytime the US gets in a war, we take a bloodbath until we get the military up to strength and our manufacturing (or what's left of it....gotta love NAFTA) levels up to support it. God Bless us and help us.

Leo J. Milligan,
I thought you, and other cold war vets like us, might be interested in this. My latest copy of tthe Medals of America catalog, shows a new commemerative medal identified as "The Cold War Medal". I stress this is a commemerative medal only. It can't be worn with the uniform, but it can be worn on civilian clothes and displayed as the medal with the least rank/standing.

Info on Morgan Freeman: Just finished watching movie "Bucket List"staring Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman in the last moments of film it is a memorial service for the part that Morgan Freeman plays and in the scene is a photo of a young airman in uniform Morgan Freeman

IMO Our armed forces are blessed with wonderful high tech fighting gadgets, although they all seem to be in severely limited supply. The total number of military personnel is also extremely limited. I think the draft should be reinstated. I think production of military goods should go on a round the clock schedule, until supplies of everything are broughtup to wartime levels. I also think there should be multiple manufacturing facilities, for each item produced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are at war, ey?

Remember my complaint about MSN putting the mention of DDay on the back shelf, in favor of National Doughnut Day, and I sent them a complaint, mentioning my calendar for that date read, "Honor Veterans! Fly The Flag!"? Well, today I got a reply to same from MSN. In short, they gave me detailed instructions on how to repair the MSN Calendar problems.

God help us, every one.

Hello, I'm trying to find Willie Lee Allen, my birth father. Does anyone have any word of him? He was in the 821st Radar Squadron in the town of Baker City, Oregon in the 1960's. Thanks for the help.

Today's New York Times has a good article on today's Air Force.
It cites a lack of discipline and a diminished roll because of the end of the cold war. I thought it was interesting...kinda long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/washington/10military.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

I'm not a joiner, but someone could let the Morgan Freeman Fan Club know about this site. The word might get to him, ey? Ey? I did not pick that up in Canada. I got it from the movies. Speaking of which, I watched Fargo again. Do people really talk like that up there? I know some of you have been there.

Re: Morgan Freeman - I sent a letter on Radomes letterhead to Morgan thru his agent. Haven't received a response, so I suspect that it was just trashed.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates recommended new leaders Monday to replace the top Air Force brass he sacked last week, the Pentagon said. The defense secretary also announced he will halt planned cuts in the size of the Air Force. Gates proposed that President Bush nominate Michael Donley and Gen. Norton Schwartz as secretary of the Air Force and chief of staff, respectively, the two top positions in the service, the Pentagon said in a statement.

I was stationed at the GATR Site of 750th at Boron, CA from 1966-1968.

Perhaps that was his permanent rank. A relative of mine retired as a Lt. Colonel, but after retirement was promoted tofull bird.

What is the salvage value of a B-2?

What is the salvage value of a B-2?

What is the salvage value of a B-2?

Trivia du jour: A few years ago, someone posted a note in our ''Guestbook'' here mentioning that actor Morgan Freeman had once served a tour in the U.S. Air Force as a radar technician assigned to Mount Laguna AFS, CA (P-76). Mr. Freeman's on-line Bio indeed does mention that he served in the Air Force from 1955 to 1959. And today's ''Parade'' magazine inside the Sunday newspaper contains an article on the actor which includes an inset titled: ''What you didn't know'' -- ''He served four years in the Air Force as a radar mechanic: 'I wasn't very military,' he said, 'But I was good at what I did.''' The article does not actually mention Mount Laguna AFS itself or its 751st AC&W Squadron, but all information appears to be consistent with the earlier account. Hmm, maybe Mr. Morgan will find our website some day, and sign in -- that would be nice.

Unfortunately, the Air Force has had rough times during the past several months---the crash of a B-2, valued at 1.4 billion, and the removal of the two top leaders running the USAF---one civilian and one uniformed. In a Hollywood movie, the old-timers would saddle-up and ride in to rescue the day. Sadly, we don’t have that choice!

PS---The B-2 crash has been attributed to moisture surrounding several sensors.

To the web master. I seein the site roster you have LT/COL Charles Allen as a retired as a LT/COL, I was under his command at McChord AFB SAGE he was a full bird O-6. Great guy and one hell of a boss.

It's D-Day and our MSN homepage doesn't even mention it! Instead they're touting National Doughnut Week! Can you believe it???????
My Norman Rockwell Calendar for this date reads, "Honor Veterans! Fly the flag!

John: Sorry you had abad experience at a American Legion Hall, Believe me they are not all that way, what I would like for you to keep in mind is that Ameriacan Legion, V F W Amvets and other veteran groups have a big lobby in Washington that helps to obtain and maintain veterans benefits. when the budget for the VA is in jeopardy of being cut these groups are there for all of us vets

Thanks Larry, for the heads up. I would suggest:
Go to: http://www.msn.com/
At the bottom right of the page, there is a feedback link. Click on it and send them your thoughts on the matter. I did and it made me feel better. What a bunch of ingrates.

RE: Larry Jacksons comments on MSN and their not mentioning that today is to be rememder as "D" Day. I went to the bottom of their web page and clicked on feedback. Then I filled their comments box with my displeasure over their "Donut News"; and not EVEN mentioning "D" Day. I let them know that a lot of brave men gave up their lives that day to so they would have the freedom to do what they did. MSN not mentioning "D"Day is a slap in the face to all veterans!!
George Wickert

The ''Google'' home page also does not mention today being D-Day. Instead, they post a tribute to Diego Rodriguez de Silva Velasquez, a Spanish painter -- June 6 apparently was his birthday. No doubt he was a great painter (although, admittedly, I have never heard of him), but I think we veterans will all agree that D-Day was much more significant to world history.

Is it really surprising that MSN made little mention of the D-Day anniversary? Today's web page features stories on how to get free Krispy Kreme donuts, a story about Dr. Pepper (the soda) and tales of woe of the latest Hollywood celebrity dipsh*t. It's obvious that the demographic they are targeting is much younger than the crowd that frequents this web site. Sadly, D-Day only means something to those of us old enough to remember it or who have or had relationships to those who personally participated. I'll bet if you asked a dozen people under 30 about D-Day, you would get a blank stare in return.

With the D-Day anniversary tomorrow, I am reminded of a book I read a few years ago that captured for me the magnitude and the raw emotion of those who experienced the Normandy invasion. The title is “D-Day, June 6, 1944: The Climactic Battle of World War II” written by Stephen Ambrose. Ambrose also wrote “Band of Brothers” which was made into a TV mini series and that book is a great read as well.

Although I read other accounts of D-Day, the Ambrose book affected me more than any. The book explains the expectations of shelling and bombing, the weather and its impact on landing operations, and vividly describes the pure terror of the soldiers and the horror of the event much of it from first hand accounts.

A particularly interesting aspect for me was how individual soldiers, many of them of lower rank, took leadership roles and arguably prevented the good guys from being pushed off Omaha back into the sea. This book reaffirmed to me these men were in fact part of the greatest generation.

Cheers,
Don Westphal
Raleigh, NC

As I understand it, the French were instrumental in holding back the Germans for several days at Dunkirk, allowing more than two hundred thousand Britishe soldiers to escape back to England.

The DDay operation may very likely have failed, were it not for the French underground actions taken before and during the invasion. While France was occupied, thousands of Free French fought throughout the world alongside the rest of the allies. The French underground fought non stop throughout the Nazi occupation. Thousands of them were executed, and thousands more innocent French civilians were executed by the Nazis, in an effort to curtail the operations of the underground. It only served to piss the French off even more, and escalated the operations of the underground.

For some reason, it's been fashionable for nearly a century, to pick on the French, for one reason or another. I've never been to France, but my children have, more than once, and they love it.

The French have had the misfortune of being the battleground in many wars, including one and two.

It's no surprise to me the French get up tight when we Yanks pick on them. It's also no surprise they're reluctant to join in with us on occasion, when we pick a fight with one nation or another. Remember, they were in Vietnam long before we were, and suffered the same defeat we did.

Last but not least. Who makes Napoleon Brandy anyway?

Hey!!! Jackson is not a French name, but I don't mind defending them.

One last thing. There have been, on very rare occassions of course, odiferous US military personnel, and how do you like your crawdads cooked, or your nutrea, or your armadillo, or your Rocky Mountain oysters, or your brains and eggs, etc.

:-)

Lest we forget, we likely would have lost the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 with England if it weren't for the invaluable help from France.

Back in the early 1970s, my neighbor practically begged me to join the local American Legion. He was an officer in the local post and he was also a hopeless drunk. His drinking habit and the way he treated his family turned me off from joining. I also knew two of the county American Legion officers (they worked in a factory where I worked) and both of them were drunks as well. One of them, the county commander, had body odor so bad that you couldn't get within 10 feet of him in the summer. To make a long story short, I finally broke down and my wife and I went to the local legion hall. My neighbor introduced me to the local post commander who was sitting at the bar and was completely drunk. Throughout the short time we were there, the post commander continually howled like a love-sick wolf. My wife got a headache and we soon left. My neighbor never attempted to recruit me again. That American Legion (I hope) is not representative of most posts. However my experience with those men associated with the local legion left me gun-shy of ever joining.

I see from some of the notes here that it's pick on the French time. First off I am not French. For a period of 4 months or so while I was stationed at Saadia, Morocco I was in charge of an all French crew. I was a S/Sgt at the time but under me were French Airman who out ranked me. Never once did I ever get any back talk or problems from any of them. We got along darn good. That speaks for most of the site. I did not find them any different than our own men. A lot of them were from Algeria and the war was going on there so they worried about their families as anyone would. This was my second tour in Morocco. I served in French Morocco from 1951 to Nov 1952. At this time they ran the country. Again we were treated with respect as long as we showed them respect. Anyway my two cents worth.

France, the final word (from me, anyhow)
In 2001 I was in France for a coupla weeks. I met nothing but nice people while I was there. The food was great, the beer was good, the wine was wonderful. I watched Lance Armstrong win his 3rd Tour de France. He would return to The Tour four more times for a total of seven wins. What a guy. Viva la France!
Chuck Sunder
Minneapolis

I recently discovered your site and have already connected with some friends I had lost touch with a long time ago. Really enjoying reading the info on this site.

I was stationed at Keesler(3399th) in '65 for 303x2 school. Then to 758th ACW Neah Bay,WA in '66 (FPS7A) and 716th ACW Kalispell,MT 67-68 (FPS7B).

Tom, you are the first (and only) person I have had contact with that assumed that the story Chuck posted was a joke--everyone else has assumed it to be a fact. I, at least, did try to find corroboration with a couple of the web sites that specialize in confirming or denying Urban Legends and Hoaxes--to no avail.

True or not, this story does resonate with Americans, both in terms of their beliefs about Frenchmen and the crustiness of WWII veterans--it is imminently believable; the one about German flight controllers does not resonate as much because very few Americans have ever had communications with them and they are not generally peceived to be as difficult to deal with as the French.

Carl

I qualify for both time periods. What about the VFW? Does serving in Labrador during those time periods qualify you, or must you have served in a combat zone. As a teenager, i was in the color guard of the drum and bugle corps of John F. Leonard Post 70, in Springfield, MA.

For the record: It is a joke. :-)

Larry I emailed you info on requirments for VFW membership, was a long list

French subject! I had the pleasure of working with the French AF in the 50s trying tp pass Air Traffic to them in English, it was a pain in the ass to say the least, remember English is the universal language for Aviation, I think as a whole they are pi--ed off that it is not French

Carl, etal

I do not open e-mail attachments as a safety precaution against virile varmits lurking therein. Nothing personal.

This for Carl:
A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included
Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies.
At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of
Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was
chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral
suddenly complained that, 'whereas Europeans learn many languages,
Americans learn only English.' He then asked, 'Why is it that we always
have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'
Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it's because the
Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to
speak German.'

You could have heard a pin drop.

Story on french air force. While stationed at Freising (604th ac&W) in 64-66 time period i was barracks chief and had 3 or 4 FAF living in the barracks. One day as i walked into the barracks a terrible smell was coming from the area of their room. After knocking on their door i asked what the smell was. The guy then proceded to show me a dead rabbit hanging in the window, they said they were "aging" it so it would be more tender when they cooked it. We had two French controllers to run intercepts with french a/c. None of the usaf int's ever wanted to work with them because of the odor of their uniforms. The cigarette smoke from the french cigarettes was really bad, and it stayed imbedded in the uniforms which looked like they were made from old army blankets. Cigarettes were "gaulloises" i believe(spelling ?) They did not cook the rabbit in my barracks.

Was assigned 728th Det3 Langley field Va.,56-57,729th Det 3, Ft Leonard Wood,Mo. 57-58, 30353 auto tracking radar,bomb scoring.Went to Orlando AFB to train for missle guidence

At the Air Force Museum I was looking at a photo of the L-20. (Type L-20 at search.) This was th plane that brought us emergency parts, small supplies, and occasionally, a flight to or from Kirtland or Luke AFB.

It seems unfair that we of the cold war that served with honor and in a lot of remote sits are unable to belong to thd American legion as associate members only. I think we ought to get together with a petition and change that.. Is it our fault that we served and scared the opposition and there were no attacks during the late 50s and early 60s.

Right! They also serve who only stand and wait.

With D Day coming up, here's a good story:

A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a
tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by
plane.. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in
his carry on. 'You have been to France before, monsieur?' the customs
officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to
France previously. 'Then you should know enough to have your passport
ready.' The American said, 'The last time I was here, I didn't have to
show it.' 'Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on
arrival in France !' The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard
look. Then he quietly explained. 'Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach
on D-Day in '44 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any
Frenchmen to show it to.'

You could have heard a pin drop

Chuck, I agree that it's a great story, but I have not been able to find anything that corroborates its verity. Neither Snopes nor Truth or Fiction has anything on it, and a web search did not find any news articles or the like that would support it. True or not, it is a good story, but I hasten to add that, although a great many Frenchmen (and women) are snide to Americans, there are also a great many who are kind and helpful.

In a slightly different vein, I have visited some American cemeteries in France, Belgium, and Luxembourg and without exception all have been maintained in absolute pristine condition--green grass, no weeds, clean headstones, tasteful landscaping--the whole nine yards. And the inhabitants near those cemeteries all know who they are for and what they did and are grateful for it. I was moved to tears on each occasion (but I am known to be a sentimental softie).

To whom it may concern Membership in American Legion requirments are, served 25 jun 1950- 31 jan 1955 or 28 feb 1961- 7 may 1975 either in the states or overseas there are other dates but this would cover some of the cold war

Clearly, Chuck Sunder's story below is only a joke. I myself find it funny, but I can see where not everyone would. It is in the same vein as this one (found on our ''GI Humor'' page):

The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are a short- tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a Pan-Am 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747 (call sign ''Speedbird 206'') after landing:
Speedbird 206: ''Top of the morning Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of the active runway.''
Ground: ''Guten Morgen! You vill taxi to your gate!''
The big British Airways 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.
Ground: ''Speedbird, do you not know vare you are going?''
Speedbird 206: ''Stand by a moment Ground, I'm looking up our gate location now.''
Ground (with some arrogant impatience): ''Speedbird 206, haff you never flown to Frankfurt before?!?''
Speedbird 206 (coolly): ''Yes I have, Ground - in 1944. In another type of Boeing....I didn't stop.''
This last remark was then followed by complete silence.

It's a great story ... but, obviously, this is also only a joke.

D-Day is just around the corner. My Norman Rockwell calendar for that date reads, "Honor Veterans. Fly The Flag!" Lest we forget. A good time to watch The Longest Day and Saving Private Ryan.

On my way to Labrador in 1960, I flew from Wichita, KS to Chicago, IL via rubber band wind up aircraft, and from Chicago to Philly via TWA Super Connie. (RC-121) From there via "Bud's Busline" to MacGuire AFB. (McGuire?)

39 Years ago today, I landed at Danang on my way to Monkey Mt. It seems just like yesterday. Time sure flies when you get older.

As the calendar flips over to June, my thoughts turn to Father's Day. As a former scopedope(789 AC&W in Omaha & OL#2 of 604 in Landshut, Germany), I would like to use this space to honor my deceased Dad - Warrant Officer RE Tully. He fought the good fight in WWII, Korea & Vietnam. He truly taught his us that "Freedom is not free". Someone has to pick up the tab. I know from our family experience, that military families pay an inordinate share of that cost. I am not whinning, that is just the way it is/was.
Be resolved that the Congress of the US should declare an annual holiday w/ the same importabce as Memorial Day. This new holiday shall celebrate "Military Families Day". To all the military Dads and Military Families out there, know that we are proud of you. Thank you for the freedom that is not free. We know your sacrifice. RT