Online Air Defense Radar Museum Guestbook

Radomes Guestbook V3.0


Welcome to the Online Air Defense Radar Museum. We hope you enjoy your visit, and that we have contributed a little something in the name of those who served.  Gene.

Please consider joining our new radar museum organization, The Air Force Radar Museum Association, Inc. AFRMA is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt non-profit Ohio Corporation. Our sole purpose is the creation and support of the National Air Defense Radar Museum at Bellefontaine, Ohio. Please visit our home page to join or donate to this cause. AFRMA, Inc. - The Air Force Radar Museum Association, Inc.. Follow the "Memberships" link on the AFRMA home page.



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2004

08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Brian A. Coy, SMS, Ret.
Email: bcoytac AT msn.com

The best chow I had was at the Canadian AF mess at Metz, France (Yellowjacket), and at the MAC NCO Academy at Norton AFB. The worst, by far, was in the cave at Kindsbach, Germany. 20-year-old hamburger patties warmed in catsup is NOT BBQ beef! I agree that the rations at most remote sites was above average, and some of the cooks really tried to show their skills. I know every time I went remote (4) I gained weight. I remeber a 54 lb salmon stuffed with shrimp and surrounded with mushrooms at King Salmon. Happy days.


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Chow hounds, I recommend the book “Chow,” subtitled, “A Cook’s Tour of Military Food,” by Paul Dickson. Out-of-print now, but you can find it used on Amazon or e-Bay, occasionally. While not a cookbook, it has 100 scaled-down historical recipes, including, yes, creamed beef, i.e., SOS. From that book, a 1973 military food survey of 378 foods listed the following as the top 10: 1, milk; 2, grilled steak; 3, eggs to order; 4, corn-on-the-cob; 5, orange juice; 6, strawberry shortcake; 7, French fried potatoes; 8, fried chicken; 9, ice cream; 10, milk shake. Bottom 10, 1, creamed onions; 2, French fried cauliflower; 3, stewed prunes (canned); 4, prune juice; 5, French fried carrots; 6, mashed rutabagas; 7, low-calorie soda; 8, fried parsnips; 9, skimmed milk; 10, buttermilk. Two things: I wonder if today’s healthier attitudes would change the survey much? (Then again, they don’t build Burger Kings on bases for fun.) Second, don’t want your buttermilk, give it to this Iowa boy. Yum!


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Chow hounds, I recommend the book “Chow,” subtitled, “A Cook’s Tour of Military Food,” by Paul Dickson. Out-of-print now, but you can find it used on Amazon or e-Bay, occasionally. While not a cookbook, it has 100 scaled-down historical recipes, including, yes, creamed beef, i.e., SOS. From that book, a 1973 military food survey of 378 foods listed the following as the top 10: 1, milk; 2, grilled steak; 3, eggs to order; 4, corn-on-the-cob; 5, orange juice; 6, strawberry shortcake; 7, French fried potatoes; 8, fried chicken; 9, ice cream; 10, milk shake. Bottom 10, 1, creamed onions; 2, French fried cauliflower; 3, stewed prunes (canned); 4, prune juice; 5, French fried carrots; 6, mashed rutabagas; 7, low-calorie soda; 8, fried parsnips; 9, skimmed milk; 10, buttermilk. Two things: I wonder if today’s healthier attitudes would change the survey much? (Then again, they don’t build Burger Kings on bases for fun.) Second, don’t want your buttermilk, give it to this Iowa boy. Yum!


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Chow hounds, I recommend the book “Chow,” subtitled, “A Cook’s Tour of Military Food,” by Paul Dickson. Out-of-print now, but you can find it used on Amazon or e-Bay, occasionally. While not a cookbook, it has 100 scaled-down recipes from history, including, yes, creamed beef, i.e., SOS. From that book, a 1973 military food survey of 378 foods listed the following as the top 10: 1, milk; 2, grilled steak; 3, eggs to order; 4, corn-on-the-cob; 5, orange juice; 6, strawberry shortcake; 7, French fried potatoes; 8, fried chicken; 9, ice cream; 10, milk shake. Bottom 10, 1, creamed onions; 2, French fried cauliflower; 3, stewed prunes (canned); 4, prune juice; 5, French fried carrots; 6, mashed rutabagas; 7, low-calorie soda; 8, fried parsnips; 9, skimmed milk; 10, buttermilk. Two things, I wonder if today’s healthier attitudes would change the survey much? (Then again, they don’t build Burger Kings on bases for fun.) Second, don’t want your buttermilk, give it to this Iowa boy. Yum!


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

(Two radar-related items on e-Bay, not connected whatsoever to me. Listings edited for brevity.): 1955 Air Force photo of Texas Tower radar island off the coast of Massachusetts. This is an original 8X10 marked Air Force Photo, Otis AFB, Mass., on the back. It is in good condition but for two creased corners. This is the tower that 53 men were stranded on during a storm in 1955. (2) 1956 postcard AF Texas Tower radar island Chatham, Mass., known as Texas Tower located 110 miles off the coast. The postcard was from Mose Lyon to his parents in Indiana. Also,some newspaper clippings of when 52 men were stranded on the tower when a storm blew in. Card is in great used condition. News clippings show age but still readable.


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: Joseph Kresge
Email: joekresge AT peoplepc.com

Every friday for lunch at Finland, MN we had the choice of Filet Mignon or Lobster Tail. A lot of wives from Base Housing honored us with their presence on those occasions. I think we had to pull a week of KP back then (1963-64). The locals were friendly and it didn`t get above 30 below the first month I was there. Finland was a drinking site, with a Curling problem. Joe


08/31/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

More food stories...At Rockville, Iceland, my roomate was the lone motor pool driver. One of his duties was to make a daily run to the NATO base at Keflavik Airport to pick up perishable food items such as bread, milk, etc. The large bakery was manned by Icelandics but a Navy Chief Petty Officer was in charge. He took a liking to my roomate and always made sure that an extra pie or sheetcake or other goodies were included on the truck exclusively for our barracks. My roomate also had the keys to the refrigerated warehouse where perishables such as meat, eggs, milk and produce were kept. After a night of partying, we would often `raid` the food locker for a late night snack. Everyone in the barracks chipped in to by an electric skillet and we used it to cook our late night meals. Steak and eggs was a favorite. They were also large stocks of canned emergency rations kept below the FPS-6 tower which we regularly raided. Most of the packages were WWII vintage. Some of the canned food was surprisingly good and some of it was downright awful. Cigarettes were included in the food boxes. I can still remember the Lucky Strikes which were in green packs. They were 20 years old and did not taste very good after all those years.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

The omni antenna was for Instant Side Lobe Suspression (ISLS) for the beacon they also may have used one to suppress interference in the sidelobs on the search radar. They also used the same configuration on the FPS-24 and other search radars.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: GAJ7702 AT aol.com

A minor mystery: When I was at Keesler I recall an instructor telling us the Navy taught that direct current flowed opposite the way the Air Force taught. I think he was serious. (Then again a radar tech could tell you with a straight face he didn’t pencil-whip the shift check readings, either.) Wouldn’t teaching current flow backwards lead to problems orienting items needing polarity, say, like diodes? Swabbies: Did (do) they do that, and why? On GI cuisine: Breakfast was typically the best meal of the day at dining halls. Simple, hard-to-screw up fare, freshly prepared. Acquired a taste for SOS to this day. (Navy supposedly makes it with tomato sauce. Must go with the flow, so to speak.)


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gene McManus
Email: gmcmanus AT radomes.org

Gary - We techs were taught `electron flow`, negative to positive. Engineers talked `current flow` as positive to negative. I spent a number of years confused by it all, until I learned to ignore engineers (grin). - Gene


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Glenn Widner
Email: gwwidner AT bellsouth.net

What I vividly remember was the early breakfast for the midnight crew served about 23:00 at Murphy Dome, 744TH AK 1968-69. Very good food, but I couldn`t watch this kid on our crew put ketsup on his eggs. After trying it, I too got to liking it.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

The chow at Cold Bay was the best I ever had in the AF, especially midnight chow which was a social event. People would show up in costumes made up of whatever they thought of. The dining hall was open 24 hrs. as a gathering place for those who couldn`t sleep. It was an great morale booster. For the regular meals we had shrimp, lobster, steak and occasionally King Crab donated by the fisheries as an appreciation for our help when needed.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Buck Brennan
Email: buckybre AT earthlink.net

Speaking of chow, I did not have it so good when I was in SEA, If you ate in the mess hall youbetter be prepared to warm the stool for a while . It took only a few hours to hit you. After a few times, one learned to visit the local dinning. My special menue was a dish called COW_POT.(beef fried rice which consited of rice/thin slices of beef(could have been any thing) geen onions and spring rolls. They had a special hot pepper in fish oil that took the hair off your head but after a fashion one got use to it. Now the decore of this place was a tin roof with wooden boxes for chairs and a ply wood table, dirt floors,we called it Mc Donalds. One of the best Dinning halls was when I was at Tinker AFB in AWACS ,We had a 2 star general that believed in good chow and he ate a lot so of course the noon meal was out of sight. You are all right AC&w chow halls were the best.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Edward Franklin
Email: erfranklin AT hotmail.com

Talking about CHOW!!!! The greatest USAF meals were Shit-on the Shingle (SOS). Being that my AC&W days were spent rotating through the 3 shifts, I always checked with the cooks as to when Mid-shift chow was going to be SOS w/eggs & sausage and then I made sure I was assigned to that mid shift, and then I could have it again the next morning and finally the next mid-shift. It was even better when the English muffins replaced the white bread toast. Uuuu-raahh!!!!


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jerry Sitzlar
Email: jasitzlar AT hotmail.com

I`m one of the really lucky guys who got to spend 15 months at Wallace Air Station, PI in `65 and `66. Some of the best food I ever ate was at Wallace. SSgt Morales (I think) and his crew of cooks were the best, especially after an Air Force CWO4 (can`t remember his name)took over as Dining Hall Officer. Every week we had a fresh pizza night and a grilled-to-order steak night (on a charcoal grill out back) and a barrel of ice filled with Sam Magoo`s and sodas. If you were lucky enough to work swing shift and came down to the dining hall to a cooked-to-order meal, then went over to the theater to watch the nightly movie with the night cooks invited to the movie, especially when they brought over just-made donuts and sandwiches. Guys, it just didn`t get any better than this. I ate at a lot of mess halls but Wallace was special. Jerry


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Dan Grady
Email: EDan AT aol.com

At Rockville Iceland in 1955-56 we had the worlds best baker, Sgt. Dewey Fincannen (SP?). The best baker this side of France!


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Kerr
Email: jackr_ker AT msn.com

1958-61 656th Saratoga Springs OUTSATANDING FOOD: One of our cooks had graduated #1 in a class of 50 GI cooks at one of the Ivy league schools Culinary Arts classes. Another cook had worked part time in a Paris Hotel kitchen. Our bakers father owned a bakery and he had worked there from birth. 1972-74 637th Othello had very good food all so. On Wednesdays the contact KP’s did the cooking. They were all Hispanic, best Mexican food you ever had. Wives from housing came to lunch on Wednesdays. I do agree that generally speaking breakfast the best meal at all bases. Hamilton AFB ADC NCO Academy 1969- had omelets to order.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Carl Wenberg
Email: zoombag AT comcast.net

I have to add to the last few comments on food at sites, at the 667th Langanese ,Iceland the troops had the use of a lake that the govt. paid for the greatest German Brown Trout I ever had seen we would bring some back and the cooks would have them on chow line in ice pick the one you wanted and have it cooked to order if nothing else we had the good chow and friends that lasted a life time. other then that it was a lost year out of life.


08/30/2004 00:00:00

Name: Carl Wenberg
Email: zoombag AT comcast.net

I`m on a roll on the site chow stories in the 902nd Miles City ,MT. the mess Sgt. was known as an AH!! one Thanksgiving he pre cooked Turkeys left them out in kitchen, he had the amount down to the oz. per man seems as though someone sneaked into chow hall and made off with 2 or 3 Birds (i`ll never tell) had to wake up his buddy at 1st national store and get more. now the rest of the story I was told after I shipped out mess sgt got caught with the local supper market mgr.they were keeping green stamps on the govt purchases . good bye retirement


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Kenneth W. Leoutsacos
Email: leoutsac AT mindspring.com

I was interested in John Tianen`s comments of 07/24/2004 about technicians in the military being trained to troubleshoot down only to the module or card level and not down to the component level as we were trained in the 30332 course. After getting out of the USAF and going back to school, I worked as a Systems Engineer for Raytheon Company producing SONAR systems for Navy ships. In addition to decreasing the training time, this level of troubleshooting decreased the Mean Time To Repair (MTTR) figure for the systems. When bidding on contract to build these systems, manufacturers had to demonstrate that their system designs not only met a statistical reliability figure but that their MTTRs met the contract requirements specified by the customer. To meet this requirement the system was designed to report failures with fault codes which broke the system down to a small groups of modules and/or cards that could cause the fault code if one or more of these failed. To meet the MTTR figure on one system that I worked on, a `unit` was created and installed on board ships as part of the system and was nothing more than a locker mounted to the bulkhead (wall)which contained a set of troubleshooting modules and cards. This was to ensure that the MTTR figure could be met by cutting the time required to get these troubleshooting spares out of ship`s supply. When system operations are critical a lot of pressure is placed on everyone concerned to minimize their down time.


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Howdy from Texas. I just returned from a TDY at Tyndall AFB (FL.) Did y`all miss me? Continuing the SF-6 discussion: The TPS-43 used SF-6 in the high voltage tank only. Due to the tight quarters of the -43 transmitter compartment, most of the HV components were stuffed into a stainless steel `tank` and pressurized with 32psi of SF-6 to prevent arcing between the components. SF-6 was used because it has a high dielectric factor (as noted earlier by David Casteel), is hydrophobic (will not suspend water molecules and thus, is naturally dry) does not contain oxygen (so it will not support flame/arcing), and can be used straight from the bottle without needing additional processing (heating or cooling, filtering, etc.) The waveguides, on the other hand, were pressurized with just plain `ol air. A built-in air compressor/dryer mounted on the ceiling just to the left behind the transmitter compartment door pressurized the waveguides with air (taken from the transmitter compartment) to keep moist outside air from seeping into the waveguide and causing mold, mildew, and corrosion. Tom Page & Sherman Butler: You`re both right. 1973 was the beginning of the `gas crisis` and the national speed limit was lowered to 55mph either late in `73 or early `74. During that time, many of the small Mom & Pop gas stations were forced out of business (I always felt sorry for them!) and many of the larger chain stations stopped operating 24hrs per day. (I have memories of having to carry a couple of 5 gallon jerry cans of gas to ensure that I could make it between open stations during my nighttime trip home for Christmas in `73.) However, I missed the long lines to get gas because I was PCSd to Alaska (Campion AFS) in 1975 & `76 when the rationing was in effect full force. It was all over (except for that darned 55 thing) when I returned to the US in Fall of `77.


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Hey Chuck Sunder (8/27), you Comm Guys are more than welcome to join this guestbook/bulletin board! After all, what was a radar site without a GATR building close by? (The correct answer is: Deaf & Dumb.) While I cannot speak for Tom Page and Gene McManus, I personally would like to think that this website is open to EVERYONE who served on a remote radar site or was connected with AC&W or ADC in some way or another. Besides the obvious radar maintenance & ops guys and gals, I would think that this would include the orderly room, vehicle maintenance, security police, fire dept, power plant, chow hall, supply, civil engineering, and all of the other personnel who kept a radar site operating. Several of the sites also had a couple of fighter planes on constant alert status and I wouldn`t mind seeing postings in this Radomes Guestbook from those pilots and aircraft support personnel as well. I suspect that they, too, have some interesting stories to share here (and thus, preserve.)


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gene McManus
Email: gmcmanus AT radomes.org

Harvey Hartman: Right On! We want to support & recognize all the boys & girls involved in the mission of air defense radar, no matter their AFSC. - Gene


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

My wife and I just got back from breakfast at our favorite cafe. The time was spent with me describing the food and food service that I experienced at different radar sites. When I first got to Iceland in `62, the mess hall was being run by a career NCO (almost 30 years service at that time) who was a case-of-beer-a-night alcoholic and had a terminal case of jock itch. I can still see him today, standing behind the chow line with an inch long ash hanging from his cigarette, scratching that certain part of his anatomy. Our nickname for him was `Scratch`. Because of his drinking problem, our chow was so-so at best. Scratch soon left for another assignment and we got a new staff sgt. to run the mess hall. What a difference....the food was the same, but the preparation and presentation was 500% better. The food at my next assignment, Saratoga AFS, was also very good. I believe that was due to the fact that quality food was easier to prepare for smaller groups. At one point, a pastry chef who had previously been assigned to a SAC base, was assigned to our mess hall. He would open the mess hall about 3:00AM and prepare from scratch, hot pastrys for breakfast as well as pies and cakes for lunch and dinner. All he did was bake, nothing else. He was usually gone by noon. A lot of the guys had a habit of skipping breakfast until he came along. Word got out fast about his excellent baking skills and suddenly breakfast became a favorite meal. The down side to this story is that there was a noticeable gain in weight by many of the troops.


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

When I was at Port Austin( 1980-82) they had the last operational FPS-24, which caused interference on all of the stereo equipment, radio and TV stations for a large area. Any time the radar went down the Search Tower would get local calls asking how long it would be down so they could do some recording on their tape decks. Of course we couldn`t tell them exactly, but we would tell them if they had time to record. The search tower also maintained the site cable TV systems since the antennas were on the building roof. After a while you got used to the TV jumping and the interference every revolution and only noticed it when it wasn`t there. On band nights at the club we use to run at reduced power and even get permission to shut the transmitter down because the bands were afraid we would ruin their equipment. This went on until late July of 1982 when the bull gear bearing froze for the last time. It was replaced with an FPS-20 Series and a lot of the site facilities were moved into the 24 Tower.


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Vet
Email: usa AT veterans-day.org

** God Bless - ALL Veterans ** Great Site!


08/29/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

I`ve got a question for some of you FPS-35 experts out in radar land. When I had the opportunity to go up to the top deck of the FPS-35 building at Montauk AFS a few years ago, I noticed a vertical assembly on top of the antenna sail. It appears to be some sort of omni directional radio antenna, but that`s only a guess. I know the IFF antenna was the horizontal antenna above the main sail, but the vertical one, I don`t have a clue. Anyone know??


08/28/2004 00:00:00

Name: Leon Luck
Email: leluckjr AT cableone.net

When I arrived at Winston Salem in `62 the AN/FPS-24 did not belong, wholly, to the USAF, yet. We were working with the GE engineers to get the bugs(?) out. We only operated from 0000 to 0600 at snap on voltage/output power. When the Cuban Crisis came up we went on the air 24/7 at Max power, (8 MegaWatts) both channels. Lit up everything within 20 or so miles. At night the top floors of the RJ Reynolds building, approx. 20 miles away, would flash every 12 seconds. When things settled down some with Cuba we were going around installing filters on TV`s etc. so you could watch TV. I worked on many different systems, but I think I always liked the 24 the best. It was like working in a science fiction movie. We changed the gear box oil a couple of times, along with bearings and a gear. I don`t recall the type of oil but I have never been around an oil that smelled so bad, and if you got it on your clothing, might as well throw them away because the oil stain was never comming out.


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Chuck Sunder
Email: chucksunder AT hotmail.com

Ah, at last....a note from a fellow Comm Center guy. Enough about the FPS-34C and ENP-52B with its UA-45A Waveguide. Here`s to that black Model Z28-FP42-AA-77, Rev 25, teletype machine with it`s incessant clatter and garbled messages, machines that would run out of paper at the most inopportune time....changing that black ink ribbon, and watching it fall on the floor and unwinding across the room, while being subjected to laughter and ridicule. Oh sure, radar ops were the primary reason for being there, oh sure, the scope dopes got to look out for Russkies coming over the horizon, but only the Comm Center guys got to run the Lilly Tomlin style switchboard with it`s cords, switches, buttons, and other antiquated (didn`t seem like it in 1955) attachments. Calling home? Forget it. The thought of calling anywhere `to the outside world` was as remote as the site itself. This switchboard was only capable of hooking up people within 50 yards of each other. Only the Comm Center guys got to find out when the supply planes were coming in, so they could hide somewhere before they landed and thus avoid `plane crew`, that dreaded term which really meant `unload crew`....and here`s to the teletype machine mechanics, who were given the task of `making a silk purse out of a sow`s ear`, keeping those mechanical monsters alive.


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Sherman Butler
Email: sherman.butler AT gettyimages.com

Just one more comment about Sulfur hexafluoride (SF6). We were told that it breaks down under waveguide arcing into Flurine gas which is highly toxic and to avoid any contact with it. Which brings me to a situation we had on the FPS-27 at Mt Hebo AFS, OR. The 27 had a water cooled dummy load for the standby transmitter. The dummy load was constructed with a thin walled glass tube in the wavequide with pure de-minarlized water running through it. On at least two occasions while I was there around 74-75 I can remember the tube breaking and the waveguide filling up with water. The first time we caught it pretty quick and most of the water was only in the dummy load and just the wavequide leading to it. The second time it pumped water into the waveguide for almost a full shift before anyone discovered it. The dummy load filled up and water backed up through the waveguide into the harmonic filter (a 20 gal barrel shaped object), through the waveguide switches and most of the way back to the klystron tube. When we opened up the waveguide we probably drained out more than a hundred gallons of water. It had been boiling away in the waveguide and everything was a pretty bad mess. With lots of arcing all through the waveguide and one ruined very expensive transmitter tube. Of course, at the time none of us had a clue how to avoid any possible exposure to any flurine gas that might have been created nor did we have gas masks for when we cracked the waveguide open. Luckly none of us got sick or died so I guess we avoided that. Needless to say, our standby transmitter was out of commission for an extend time, at least a month and probably more, but that detail I can`t remember any longer.


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Sherman Butler
Email: sherman.butler AT gettyimages.com

Who remembers the gas crisis of 1975. Waiting in long lines for gas for your car was just part of the fun. Our site was told we had to conserve fuel for the power plant so we were instucted to keep the standby transmitter running at no higher than snap-on voltage. The FPS-27 at Mt Hebo AFS, OR had a tendency to burn in at whatever voltage it was running and not be very happy if you tried to change it. If after running for several days or weeks at snap-on it became challange to get it back up to full power. I remember one shift where the primary transmitter had a problem and I had to switch over to the standby. As soon as I started to bring up the high voltage from the 15KV of snap-on the system would kick off about every 2-3KV sending a power surge back throughout the entire site. We had a FSS-7 Missle Warning system on the site and they didn`t take kindly to me knocking their radar off the air every time mine went down. I remember standing in front of that transmitter control panel for 6 or 7 hours nursing the high voltage up 1KV at a time and getting phone calls from job control, the power plant and the fuzzy 7 guys every time we kicked off. It was a long shift.


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Page
Email: tepage AT hotmail.com

For Sherman Butler: Actually, the so-called gas crisis was in 1973. I remember this vividly as I had juct bought my first car ... and I was truly afaid I wouldn`t be able to drive it! -- Tom


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Miles Martin
Email: miles.martin AT msfc.nasa .gov

You guys talking about cooking things on the FPS-6 Antenna reminds me of one of my old war stories. I was the QC officer at 25AD back in the early 70`s. We were doing an inspection at Mica Peak. My radar inspector in the FPS-6 tower gave the site a write up because there was grease on the antenna deck. We only found out later that the grease had come from one of the guys who had been duck hunting and decided to cook his duck with the FPS-6 Microwave.


08/27/2004 00:00:00

Name: Billy Brooks
Email: bdbrooks AT verizon.net

I never realized how lucky I was to have worked on the old FPS-20A and FPS-6. Regular air pressurization with none of the weird stuff to KO you if it leaked. I was lucky enough to see the FPS-35 at Thomasville, AL in 63 and that was as close as I ever wanted to get to one of the `new` ones. Scary monster. Booker


08/26/2004 00:00:00

Name: David E. Casteel
Email: davidecasteel AT yahoo.com

Sulfur hexafluoride (SF6) has a very high dielectric constant--much higher than dry air; the effect is improved when the gas is under pressure. Pressurizing a waveguide with dry SF6 makes the guide able to handle higher power without arcing. Another way to accommodate higher power is to just increase the size of the waveguide; however, this is usually not practical, since the waveguide size is determined by the frequency of the energy being transmitted within it. SF6 was needed for fairly high power radars operating at high frequencies (small waveguide sizes) or for very high power radars operating at more normal frequencies (medium waveguide sizes). The AN/FPS-24 and AN/FPS-35 radars had extremely low frequencies (comparatively) and their enormous waveguides did not need SF6; however, the primary conduit of the radar energy in those radars was 9-inch diameter rigid coaxial cable, and those elements were pressurized with SF6 to avoid arcing (if I recall correctly). Concerning the effects of radiated power on radar sites, at Mt. Hebo AFS, Oregon there was an incident (prior to my arrival, so I can`t confirm it, but I believe there was a report made on it) whereby a photographer had been on his way down to the Operations Area to document some feature and had his pants pockets full of old-style flashbulbs. You guessed it--the AN/FPS-6B happened to be aimed in his direction as he started down the `hill` and it set off all his flashbulbs at one time! I understand the heat was sufficient to set his trousers on fire! (That would really ruin one`s day.) After the AN/FPS-24 radar was installed, birds were observed to dip wildly when they happened to fly through the near-effect beam of that radar. Mt. Hebo was a very unusual site. The winds there exceeded gusts of 150 mph in the Winter, which has to be some of the worst wind conditions found anywhere in the lower 48. Those winds were strong enough to fling small stones to the top of the AN/FPS-24 tower, 85 feet above the ground! (I have seen them, and it is impossible to throw them up there from the ground or from a nearby radar tower.)


08/26/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Vincent
Email: bayoubark AT bellsouth.net

When stationed at 765th,can remember scrambling fighters on 5 unknowns orbiting over bay of Nova Scotia. Turned out to be 5 cargo ships sitting in bay.............


08/26/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jim Bromley
Email: k7jeb AT qsl.net

Certainly appreciate the wealth of USAF radar info on this site. My only connection with the Air Defense Command was as a teen-aged Ground Observer Corp volunteer, so all the radar-site and equipment data here has cleared up a number of 50-year-old mysteries for me. I always thought I would join the Air Force and become a `scope dope`, but college and an engineering career intervened. I actually worked on radars, but they were airborne, synthetic-aperture types with a lot of back-end digital processing and no unbelievably remote mountaintop sites. Best wishes....


08/26/2004 00:00:00

Name: Chuck Adkins
Email: ChuckAdkins AT comcast.net

I`ve been reading the messages and thought I would leave a note. Worked in the Comm Center at the 664th AC&W in Bellefountaine, Ohio in 1965. Went TDY during the summer of 65 to the 661st at Selfridge AFB, Michigan. Went to Phan Rang AB, Vietnam in 2-66 and spent the last four months of my tour at Dalat with a Skyspot crew. Chuck


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: Don Kerby
Email: wyldman2112 AT msn.com

SF6 gas is also used in the TPS-43E and TPS-75 transmitter compartment. The High voltage power supply is contained within a tank (official nomenclature, SF6 tank) which is pressurized with this gas. I was always told the reason was because the gas was so very dry that it prevented arcing, never did find out if there were peculiar chemical properties that made it best for this. One funny thing about this arrangement, it`s water-cooled at about 100 psi or so. Makes for a real bad day when the lines inside that tank spring a leak!


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: Skip Steiger
Email: skips01 AT att.net

USAF 23rd Norad Region Duluth IAP 1975-1976 SAGE 23rd Air Division, `Goliath` Weapons Controller Technician


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: CMSGT(Ret) Dennis L. Thune
Email: dlthune AT cableone.net

This is very,very nice. Great Work!! Was at the 780th AC&W, 619th,Det11, and 620th,Det5. Finished up with 31 years at the 107th TCS/ACS Air National Guard in Phoenix.


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

More on SF6 gas....since it is a halogen gas, an electronic halogen leak detector is used to detect leaks in the waveguide. Back in `64 we used a portable GE model on the FPS-27. Halogen leak detectors are used in air conditioning and refrigeration to find refrigerant (Freon) leaks. When I left the AF, I got into the air conditioning industry. One of my first duties was maintaining GE halogen leak detectors on an air conditioner production line. When I first started the job my co-workers were surprised that I had prior knowlege of leak detectors. They wanted to know how I could know about such a thing coming from the radar field.


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: Hal Weller
Email: hweller AT flash.net

Jumping onto the question about game of choice. In my fading memory it seems that at the 661st from 1953-1956, I can remember the senior controllers playing a never ending game of cribbage in the breakroom during the late evening and mid watch. In the barrack it was one or another never ending(never for money, of course not!) poker. also recall one of the tech`s being zapped once really big time. Thought the old 6b was coming through the roof. Anyone remember tracking the frieghters on Lake Erie coming up the Detroit River into Lake St Clair when the inversion was reallly hanging-in? A number of tech`s and operators ended up working and retiring from the airlines and FAA after their AC&W duty.


08/25/2004 00:00:00

Name: john w klesch
Email: aklesch66 AT sbcglobal.net

I AM LOOKING FOR OTHER SHIPMATES I TRAINED WITH DURING THE PERIOD OF 1958 TO 1964 A REPONSE WOULD BE APPECIATED.


08/24/2004 00:00:00

Name: Carl Wenberg
Email: zoombag AT comcast.net

To add to Harvey Hartmen running an AM station in a remote site, I did that in Langanese Iceland we had a great studio with all the latest records sent to us from AFR our CO got so mad because we were playing ` Who Wears Short Shorts` all the time he went to station took record and sailed it like a frisbee off of our 1000 ft hill into greenland sea, the soutern guys liked CW a buddy liked Jazz almost turned into a brawl he had to lock himself in station as they tried to beat down door. so much for my radio career


08/24/2004 00:00:00

Name: Michael Horne
Email: mdhorne AT cox.net

Just a little update on the remote phone call situation. By 1990 (and possibly earlier) the `outgoing` phone lines at Galena (through ALASCOM) were considered to be commercial as opposed to military lines. While the phones were still considered For Official Use Only (and only collect calls could be made via the ALASCOM operators), it was not considered as WATS/AUTOVON/DSN abuse to make these calls either. At King Salmon in 1984, they still had an old `5 Minute` phone booth upstairs in the old NCO quarters for the limited AUTOVON calls, but it was already out of use by then, also. BTW, on the old Birchwood Hangar at Galena - by 1990, all of the comm functions except for the (new, unmanned) AFRTS radios were pulled out of Birchwood and into a new HQ building directly behind it. The new building even had a room built in for the new (post-Campion) GATR site. However, according to local lore, one of the late `80s base commanders `didn`t want to see antennas on his HQ`, so the GATR remainded in the old wooden Weather shack (even after Weather moved to the new control tower). A new GATR (in a surplus/moved Campion building) was still being worked on in `91 when I left. The base closed within the next few years!! So much for remotes... :)


08/23/2004 00:00:00

Name: CMSgt Jay Phillips (Ret)
Email: jaylu1010 AT cox.net

As an old 30390 radar tech, let me chime in on the SF6 discussion. Sulphur Hexaflouride was used in waveguide systems to reduce arcing from RF transmited energy.The waveguide interiors were silver plated,which worked OK for low wattage radars to reduce waveguide arcing problems.However; as RF power reached into the megawatt ranges an additional medium was needed, hence SF6..In the FPS-26A,waveguide `pressuization` was achieved by mixing SF6 with dry air produced by a carbon vane air compressor.As an aside, SF6 gas was produced by Allied Chemical Company, a sole source manufacturer. If memory serves, one bottle of gas in 1962 was $180.00.


08/23/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Hey Col Scanlan, I read your posting with great interest! It looks like we only missed running into each other by a mere ten years! Yes, Campion was one of those sites that had a low power AM transmitter. It was nice to be able to take an AM radio with us when we went fishing on the Yukon. I was a radar maintenance technician at Campion but on the weekends I became a volunteer at Galena`s AFRTS TV station in the big hangar. Basically, I ran the station on the weekends and I had ONE HECK of a great time!!! Before I started doing it, the station would begin the broadcasting day around 5PM and shut down around midnight. However, I started running it all night on the weekends and it didn`t go off the air until Sunday night. Of course, with the limited programming in the studio`s meager library and what little was mailed in each week, most of the stuff I showed were reruns. Didn`t matter though - Since we were the only station around, the guys loved it! (Remember, 24 hour TV was still pretty much unheard of back then, even in some of the the major Lower 48 cities.) About six months after I rotated out in Sep `77, I phoned back to a friend still up there and he told me that an earth station had just been built and Galena TV was getting a video satellite feed. While I`m sure that was one of the greatest morale boosters for the guys, it kinda made me sad that an era had passed. Remote duty had just become a little less remote. (Progress, I guess, is inevitible.) You know, if they ever get a highway built that connects Galena to the outside world, it will ruin that place!


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

I think the pidgeons and geeses were just afraid of ending up it a Pennslyvania Dutch Oven instead of the microwaves. Also heard stories of the FPS -6 being used to light up an umpowered sign in Iceland spelling out NOEL everytime it swung by. At Luke AFB we used a florescent bulb on the back of the sail of an MPS-11 without a radome to tell us whether we were transmitting. Since I wear hearing aids I can detect RF from the radars if I am close enough (within several hundred feet).


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gene McManus
Email: gmcmanus AT radomes.org

Thanks to John Rosso, the 848 ACW, Det 34 site has been documented. Many thanks, John.


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Vincent
Email: bayoubark AT bellsouth.net

852nd---1959-60..............Occassionally we would get a call from guys at alert building down on flight line asking us to rotate our height finder 180 degrees. We were lighting up flourescent lights on their buildings.


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Kerr
Email: jackr_ker AT msn.com

John Tianen, SF6 gas all so used in Height Finder wave guide on the AEW&C EC-121


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Scanlan
Email: tomandsue AT pasty.com

For Harvey Hartman--


08/22/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Scanlan
Email: tomandsue AT pasty.com

Harvey Hartman- Re your note on connecting to the outside world at Campion in the early 1970`s! I was the Airman-In-Charge of that little black and white TV station in Galena for most of 1964. I made a few trips to Campion, also. We were allowed to place no-charge phone calls to the Lower 48 every 10 days; we rotated that privilege with the other remote AC&W sites in Alaska, and also with BMEWS at Clear and a couple other remote outfits. If I recall, we got to call on the 4th, 14th and 24th of every month. I had folks in Connecticut and a girlfriend in Tennessee, and my favorite bases to call thru were Hamilton or Hanscom. Both had WATS lines, and depending on who you got at the comm center, we usually got to talk a good 10 minutes or so. And yes, those AFRS radio broadcasts from Elmendorf usually were just piped via audio cable from the various comm centers to dayrooms, chow halls, etc., but there were a few low power, usually 50 watts or so, AM transmitters. Now retired and living in Copper Falls, MI, about 5 miles from the now closed Calumet AFS, MI, home of the 665th Radar Sq. Tom Scanlan, LtCol, USAF Retired from both `day job` and USAF!


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

SF6 or Sulfur Hexafloride which was also used in the other truly high power radars.


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gene McManus
Email: gmcmanus AT radomes.org

Here`s another unit we don`t have any record on. Anybody know where it was?

Thanks - Gene


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jerry Zettler
Email: zettlerj AT speakeasy.net

Gene FYI the pictures you posted show up as broken link. Maybe my browser settings I do notknow.


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gene McManus
Email: gmcmanus AT radomes.org

I`ve fixed the broken link on the picture, thanks. We`ve also figured out where the lighter came from. That was the 848th Det 45 radar site. Thanks to the folks who`ve sent me info on this. Gene


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

Jack Armstrong is correct. Sulphur Hexaflouride was used to pressurize the waveguide of the FPS-27. Now for another related trivia question. What was used to find leaks in waveguides pressurized with that gas (SF6)?


08/21/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Petrick
Email: jpdoctorcool AT cs.com

I have ? for all the Radar Tec.I was at the 648th Benton,Pa. We always had confused homing-pigeons landing at our site, and the Geese flying south, would split up and fly around our sit.Was this due the radar siginal going out. I was not a scope dope, or radar tec, I was the one who kept you guys cool in the operations bld.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: David E. Casteel
Email: davidecasteel AT yahoo.com

Concerning games, the standard game played at Eufaula AFS, Alabama (by the officers, at least) was Euchre. My impression of the standard recreational activity in the city of Eufaula was `indoor sports` (if you know what I mean), as there was precious little else to do in town (in 1960).


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bill Wells
Email: bdwells AT lakecountry.net

Tom, the HQ building at 767th was on the left as U topped the hill--it was 2 story--the only 1 storys were the supply-mess hall- and BOQ. I cant quite place the one U show as the Hq


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

Speaking of `urban legends`....back in the early 60`s there was a story circulating about how some resourceful radar techs saved Thanksgiving dinner at a remote site in Alaska. As the story goes, the oven in the mess hall was broken, so the traditional Thanksgiving turkey could not be roasted. Radar techs saved the day by hanging the bird in front of the waveguide feedhorn on an FPS-6 antenna, cooking the bird microwave style.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Don Kerby
Email: wyldman2112 AT msn.com

Here`s one for ya: We were in a mobile unit, TPS-43E. We set up on a hill outside a town (doesn`t matter what town). About 3 days after we fired up and began operations we received a visitor from the local cable TV company. He claimed that whenever our antenna was rotating it knocked out their satellite feed. Our Commander came to me with this since I was in charge of the Radar section. I told him it was bogus. The frequency range was way off. This guy was just trying to blame his equipment or programming problems on us. We stayed there for quite a while, and the cable company guy kept coming back with the same complaint. Finally, to prove he was wrong, we set up a test rig with an RF probe and a spectrum analyzer. Fired up the transmitter, BAM, huge levels of broadband interference all over the place. Turns out we had a dented section of waveguide going out to the antenna, and when it arced it sent out a big RF pulse that really didn`t care what frequency range it overdrove. None of the standard test equipment or periodic maintenance procedures showed any kind of problem, but we were sending spurious RF all over everthing. We replaced that waveguide section and TA-DA, the cable TV interference was gone. Ya just never know.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Floyd Haber
Email: imusici AT berk.com

For Bill Wells...The building at the 767th that Tom states may be the HQ building is, I believe, the DayRoom across from the actual HQ, which was on the ground floor of the barracks at the top of the hill on the right. The DayRoom was only one story as well, but I do think the BOQ was a two story, but smaller than the two enlisted barracks. Of course it`s been 47 years since I last saw the place, and Toms photos sure bring back some memories.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Hank Brand
Email: hankb16 AT att.net

John-I have heard similar stories about chickens being fried at the feedhorns of FPS-6`s. Amazing that that imagination has been placed in our homes today a.k.a. microwave ovens (with the magnetrons)! For Gary-At Murphy Dome (early 1964), we had a pressurized flexible waveguide at the FPS-6 transmitter cabinet, which had a small internal leak and developed a bulge about 18` long and 4` high and was dubbed (for a USAF article) `Pregnant`. By the way, was the dart board used for trouble-shooting, when all else failed?


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Hank Brand
Email: hankb16 AT att.net

Quick follow-up to my previous msg 18` and 4` measurements are in inches, not feet. Seems system converts quotation marks to single marks.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

Talk about cooking the turkey with the radar, I wonder how many old radar tech`s remember the CPS-1 search radar. It was nicknamed `The Snowplow`. The reason for that was it had two antenna reflectors 25 feet long and assembled back to back. They both looked like they came off of a truck snowplow. One, the low beam antenna was about 8 feet high, and the other, the high beam antenna was about 5 feet high. Each antenna was fed by a linear array of dipoles numbering 106. Normally, the set was mounted on a 25 foot temperate tower, although we did have a mobile one mounted on a flatbed trailer when I was in a Tac Control Sqdn. One of the unique things about the CPS-1, was that it had a backup drive system if the main azimuth drive motor failed. This backup system consisted of a bike mounted on the edge of the tower and connected to the main drive system via a gearbox on the bike and a drive shaft from the bike to the drive unit. If the drive motor failed, you would find the biggest guy in the squadron to pedal the bike. Azimuth rotation speed depended on how fast he peddled. This went on until he could peddle no more, or he started to `GLOW`. He got whacked with RF every 180 degrees, as the snowplow antennas were assembled back to back, and were both radiating all the time. It was a unique operation, to say the least. I know my good friend and high school classmate, Chuck Rowland, will remember this system. We both went to radar school in 1949, and the CPS-1 was part of the traing. Chuck also worked on the CPS-1 after getting out of school. My first site with the CPS-1 was with the 124th AC&W Sqdn at Alexandria AFB, LA in 1953. Chuck and I both retired in 1969 after serving 20 years in the radar field. Thought this might be of interest to the Radome family.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

A short followup to my previous post. I`d like to thank my good friend, Chuck Rowland, for introducing me to the Radomes Website when we met at our 50th high school reunion a number of years ago. As they say, the rest is history. Thanks again, Chuck.


08/20/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

Bud Egan`s discussion of being zapped with RF energy reminds me of an incident that happened while I was at Saratoga AFS. The FPS-65 had been deactivated and the FPS-27 had come on line as the primary search radar. One of the NCO`s and a couple of us airmen had to go up into the 65`s radome to do something (can`t remember what). Normally is such a situation, the 27 transmitter would be be shut off as the antenna passed the sector where the 65 tower was located to prevent zapping anyone working in it. This was standard procedure at all sites for operating radars. Well, somone dropped the ball that day. The 65 antenna was aimed directly at the 27 tower. When the 27 swept around, we got the full shot. The 27 had a very powerful transmitter and the 65 antenna (pointing directly at the 27) concentrated the RF at the antenna feedhorn sort of in a reverse focus of the energy. We has some screws on the feedhorn and the RF was so powerful that arcs jumped between the screws and we could actually hear it snap and crackle. We hastily got off the antenna and off the antenna deck. It just illustrates the power of RF energy. By the way, here is a trivia question. Many waveguides were pressurized with air. Due to the extreme high power of the FPS-27, air was inadequate since it would break down and arc under the high power. What substance was the FPS-27 waveguide pressurized with? Winner gets an all expense paid trip to Las Vegas. Just kidding on Vegas......


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Thanks as always to those who had comments on my items. Getting set to go on vacation to Iowa. As a boy I remember a tour to the radar site at Waverly. Little did I know I would work on similar items one day. I quite agree about radar and education. I used to tell people who worked for me that no, but no one, should come out the Air Force after four years without at least a two-year degree. The CCAF wasn’t around in my enlisted time, but I did attend a two-year school, then a university, and eventually got a master’s degree. Still and all, I remember the hardest test I think I ever took, the radar five-level exam. I was so nervous in a room alone. I didn’t know the first three answers, got up and walked around. Then I sat down and passed it. I think electronics techs (and here I would include our brethren in radio and computers) did tend to be bright, interesting guys, many with wicked senses of humor. I wonder sometimes what would have been the official AC&W game: Horseshoes, euchre, poker or solitaire?


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

For most of us Pinocle was the Radar Game followed by Hearts and in our Mobile Units we played a three card thrump game called BooRay. A quick but deadly game where if you didn`t take a trick you matched the pot. I still play Pinocle against the computer and I am way ahead. I agree with the education point, but it was extremely difficult to go beyond a two year degree while stationed in the Boondocks. I got my BS after I retired. Most who know me would say I already had a Mastres in BS. JB


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: glen horsley
Email: bukboard AT aol.com

stationed 658th ac&w sqdn winnemucca l959 60 61. 917 ac&w sqdn puntzi mtn canada 1962.


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Michael Staton
Email: michael_staton AT msn.com

We played spades, a lot of spades, on Miyako Jima. Old farts (seems weird now that I`m way past that age!) couldn`t understand why we didn`t play pinocle. They thought the AF they knew had died. At Woomera (5th JDSCS) we played darts, table tennis and bend your elbow at the Eldo. At Wallce in the P.I. we had our own golf course.


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Gary, actually there was an `official` AC&W card game: Pinochle. I remember a paragraph from my 1973 30352 CDCs that mentioned how `the duties of an AC&W repairman vary from being very busy to times of utter boredom and that learning a card game such as Pinochle would come in handy during those slower times.` While I never learned Pinochle, I did get pretty darned good at Spades, which was probably the most popular game among the mobile TAC radar units. Thankfully, I never got hooked on poker but there always seemed to be one going on somewhere at any time of day or night on a radar site. Other than cards, Professional Drinking & Partying seemed to be the AC&W standard pasttime, followed closely by Amature Heaving!


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

I should have included darts. In Germany at the 622nd TCF we had a nice dartboard that someone brought from England. Presumably the best were made there. Some guys had special expensive darts that had removable, bendable fins or some such. And, we had the inevitable card table made from a big wooden cable spool that was sanded smooth, darkly stained, covered with green felt. I think these were a standard fixture at that time in many military units, and some were done well indeed. At the 661st AC&W Sq., we used to play a game with a piece of test equipment (I forget what it did) that used nixie tubes (still used anywhere?) for decimal digital read-out. We played for Cokes and such but how that game worked is lost to memory. BS stories: I heard a staff sergeant say he repaired a hole in a waveguide by wrapping a Sunday newspaper around it (maybe the funnies, given the story) and was decorated on the spot by a general officer. This was said with a straight face. In those days the reaction (when seated) was to extend your feet straight out, a foot off the ground, “It’s getting high in here.” As I recall there was a AF Form 349 (?) that we used to fill out at the 661st to account for simply being there, `Equipment monitoring.` It had the number of manhours spent doing this and a code. There weren`t codes for the actual activities, like, `buffing the floor,` `watching Japanese monster movies,` or `wondering if anyone will catch me if I sleep on midnight shift.` Finally, there was a parts ordering form, AF Form 2005 ... I think. One radar tech told me a guy ordered a helicopter on one just to see if he could get it, while another guy ordered a Jeep piece by piece and assembled it. Both of these tales were supposedly set in Alaska. BS stories perhaps, but given GIs, you never know, `Helicopter, Huey, 1 each ...`


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Hello again Gary. I forgot about darts. Probably every NCO club and dormitory day room had the obligatory dart board and pool table. And, like you, I remember the guys who had their very own (really expensive) set of darts. And how many of us bought our own pool cue during tech school? While pool wasn`t an AC&W exclusive, I dare say that it was a military staple. I`ll bet that we all have memories of some guy in our barracks who was absolutely fantastic at pool because every barracks had at least one! (I think that it was a reg.) Yes, the AF 2005 is still the standard materials requisition form, although the old carbon-papered version is long gone. Computer-generated forms (Form-Flow) are the norm these days. And the 349 is still the standard form for documenting maintenance actions, although much modified from the form that you and I used to fill out 25 years ago. There was a block to enter the Repair Action and our most used codes (which I can no longer remember the code numbers) were for `No Trouble Found` and, my favorite, `Operator Error.` And here`s another one for you: AF1297 `Hand Receipt.` This was the form your supply guy made you sign when you were issued your tool kit or the MWR guy issued you a set of skis for the weekend.


08/19/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Fortmuller
Email: AF-Elexnut AT Att.Net

Gary, I read that you are going to visit Waverly, Iowa I spent the first 7 months of 1953 at Waverly. 788th. Loved it. Especially the State Teachers College in Cedar Falls.


08/18/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bobbie Bass
Email: brbass AT nc.rr.com

what happened to the great dialog that was going on? Did everyone get burned out?


08/18/2004 00:00:00

Name: Carl Wenberg
Email: zoombag AT comcast.net

Looking for the WAFS that were at the 661st Selfridge worked and dated a couple while there 1958


08/18/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

I have always felt that my Air Force electronics training (30332)was a significant factor in my success in civilian life. It opened the door to jobs I would never have been considered for if not for that training. In my own case, I did not stay in the radar field but worked where I was able to apply my electrical and electronics knowledge. I eventually went back to school and got several degrees, including a Master`s Degree. I eventually ended up doing technical training before I retired which I still do on a consulting basis. It is very lucrative. While some people who log onto the guestbook made a career of the Air Force, many did not. It would be interesting to hear how Air Force training affected the civilian jobs or careers of former AC&W vets. Did you benefit from your military training? I can recall before getting discharged of guys saying the were going to do manual labor or work in unskilled occupations after receiving some really good electronics training. At the time I can recall saying to myself, what a waste of good training.


08/18/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jack Armstrong
Email: jackarm AT hotmail.com

Bobby I thought by now you would have something more to add to the dialogue. Have you have forgotten all that I taught you about how radars work? Seriously though the digital and computerized advances have made all of the old concepts actually work without constantly need to be `tweaked`. The old FPS-24 and 35`s concepts were way ahead of the hardware capibilities at the time. I still teach the old systems(FPS-66, and ARSR-1 & 2) which combine discrete component transmitters and a solid state receiver which added years to the continuing service these systems still provide. The primary problem with the older systems is lack of parts since most of them are no longer manufactured. For those who remember the 47/49 Digitizers used at the SAGE Sites and what monsters they were to maintain the latest replacement for them is TDX-2000 Dual Channel Digitizer built by Sensis that is in a single 19` Rack and will do anything that the old ones would do for any radar currently in production.


08/18/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Fortmuller
Email: AF-Elexnut AT Att.Net

I have been tracking some of the conversations of the new vs the old and I had to say a few words. I didn`t spend as much time in Radar Maintenance as a lot of you did because the first ten years of my career I was a scope dope with most of the time as Intercept Control Tech. I was very lucky when I was assigned to the 627th AC&W site in Mississippi. I became very proficient with the AJ system console of the FPS-27 and as a result I was given a chance to cross train into Weather Equipment Systems when volunteers were called for, and I attended the electronics schools at Chanute AFB, Illinois. Now I was working on the radars, not as long range or as powerfull but we dealt in low power precision and very high frequency for detection of water vapor. and other weather phenomena as well as all the weather related weather equipment on the airfield. The good old AForce troubleshooting procedures held me in good stead. When I was chosen to write the 302 Weather maintenance Module for #AAR3000090 Electronics Superintendents Course at Keesler I was able to visit all the electronics courses that were taught at Keesler, and the troubleshooting procedures were predominately the same. They may not work on all the new gadgets and multi- level boards but believe me I still use them and I apply them to very large scale computer networks. The new guys get out thier laptops and try to solve the problem with those, but using logical trouble shooting methods will apply to servers,routers, switches etc. By substituting a cabinet as a component, logical troubleshooting will get you to the problem quickly.The younger guys tell me it won`t work but a lot of the time I am there waiting for them. Then ,as you say the board or `blade` (electronics module) gets replaced. I`m still well employed by EDS( Electronics Data Systems)and I`m almost 68 and retired from the AF for almost 30 years,so guys,don`t sell your skills short.


08/16/2004 00:00:00

Name: Kenneth W, Leoutsacos
Email: leoutsac AT mindspring.com

I am interested in contacting Thomas C. Chaapel(A/1C) formerly from upper state New York, who I served with at the 759th RADRON in Nasalle, Washington during 1962-1964. Tom was my first shift-leader in the field and had a lot to do with my wanting to go back to school. Most maintenance was done on day-shifts; so every night while working swings and mids, Tom gave me a section to read out of an MIT Radar Text and he would quiz me on what I had read. Not that we fully understood what we read, but it made me familiar with reading technical material. I`ve always been greatful. After getting out of the Air Force, I went back to school for an Associates in Electronics, A Bachelors in Electrical Engineering, and a Masters in Engineering Management while working. I recently retired after a 38 year Engineering career supporting US Navy Sonar programs. I`ve never regetted my time in the USAF or in AC&W Radar.


08/15/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Page
Email: Historian AT radomes.org

For Gary Jacobs: Actually, it was known as the ``Southern Air Defense System`` (SADS) that was set up in 1972 as a result of the Cuban airliner flying in undetected. (This is not the only error in ``Watching the Skies.``) SADS included the FAA radar sites at Phoenix (Humboldt Mtn.), AZ; Silver City, NM; El Paso, TX; Odessa / Andrews, TX; Lackland AFB / San Antonio, TX; Oilton, TX; Ellington ANG Base, TX; and Slidell, LA. (Of course, Lackland and Ellington were once blue-suit radar sites.) SADS also included the re-opened blue-suit sites at Lake Charles AFS, LA, and Dauphin Island AFS, AL. -- Tom


08/14/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

If my memory is correct, the first MTI system was on the CPS-5E and used during the Berlin Airlift in 1948-49. We had one at Keesler in 1949 and the antenna was mounted on top of hanger #1. The rest of the equipment was in a secure transportable hut behind the hanger. It was still classified at the time.


08/13/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

A bucket of amber video-paint to M.K. Staton, who knew that Washington was the first and (so far!) only President to personally command troops in the field “… George Washington determined that troops would be needed to put down the so-called insurrection. The troops, largely from New Jersey, arrived in Carlisle, Penn., in late September 1794. Washington and his troops arrived in Bedford, Penn., on Oct. 19th. …,” from the WhiskeyRebellion.org web site. Washington personally in the field solved his command and control problem. During the Cold War such was the stuff of movies, like “Fail Safe,” or “Dr. Strangelove.”


08/13/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

And the premise of the MTI was …? (Here I confess I forget. I recall two signals being compared and a delay line (?) I think.) Wasn’t a radar signal bounced off the moon in the 50s? I think BMEWS once tracked the moon. Remember the Echo I and II satellites, big (30 meter diameter) silver balloons, visible to the naked eye that were the first telecommunications satellites? I think signals were simply bounced off them. They later reentered the atmosphere and burned up. I think there was a third called Pegasus, but I may be mistaken.


08/13/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Gary, Early (analog) MTI compared the phase angles (not necessarily distance) of the radar returns. If the phases were identical, it could be assumed that the target had not moved during the two PRTs and, thus, was probably not an aircraft. The way it worked is that one return was fed through a 1 PRT delay line to a `cancellation point` and the next return was inverted (but undelayed) and also fed to this point. Therefore, when two returns with identical phases were compared, the first one and the inverted second one cancelled each other out at the cancellation point and nothing was passed on to the video amplifiers, thus preventing stationary targets from being displayed. Conversely, if two non-identical returns were received, they wouldn`t be cancelled and the resultant difference between the two pulses would be amplified and processed as valid (moving target) video. While it was theoretically possible that an aircraft could fly at a speed where the phases of the returns were always at the exact same angle (regardless of the distance, which, as you remember is not factored into the MTI comparison) it would be highly improbbably for that aircraft to maintain this `blind speed` exactly over many PRTs. And a hovering (stationary) helicopter still has moving rotor blades so it is also reflecting non-identical returns. By the way, the MTI `cancellation point` was merely an exotic name for a solder joint where the two signals entered and (maybe) one exited. Modern digital radar systems have a different method of determining if a target is stationary or moving. Their receivers assign numerical values to each return and these values are digitally compared which yields a more reliable MTI video presentation.


08/13/2004 00:00:00

Name: Don Miles
Email: donmiles AT cox.net

In response to Gary Jacobs` post of 8/12/04. While I was stationed with a TAC mobile unit at Homestead AFB a Cuban defector landed a MIG-17 at the base in Oct 69. President Nixon was at Key Biscayne and Air Force One was parked in the black hanger. We were able to get a close up view of the MIG before the Cubans flew it home. In the 70`s another MIG over flew the Key West area and the answer was the balloon radar at Cudjoe Key.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Greetings Bud. The 12.36usec `radar mile` is simply based on how long it takes a transmitted pulse to travel through the atmosphere to a target one mile distant and return. The 12.36 figure is a `standard rate` and is used mostly academically since, as you pointed out, it does not take into account the pulse formation and reply processing times. I guess it could be argued that the `mile` starts and ends at the antenna`s reflector, not the feedhorn.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

Thanks, Harvey. That was my guess, since the reflector was the furthest point in the system the pulse would travel out and back in FREE space. I wasn`t sure, though, so thanks again.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Michael Staton
Email: michael_staton AT msn.com

The answer is Geo. Washington and the Whiskey rebellion. Led against American farmers.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: MKStaton
Email: michael_staton AT msn.com

The second question is , I believe (621st TCF callsign), Nixon. Plane landed in Florida, I thought.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Hank Brand
Email: HankB16 AT worldnet.att.net

Bud! Good to hear from you again! The ‘Radar Mile’ is a measurement of TIME. It is the combined TIME that is required for radio (radar, solar) energy to travel 1 mile and return. That time (12.36usec.) is the basis for calculating the distance from the antenna to a given target. So, at the speed of light, radio energy takes 6.18usec to travel 1 mile and a like amount to return, resulting in a ‘Radar Mile’ 12.36usec. Using time as the reference, the sweep speed on a PPI is controlled to display visually, the distance to a target. Also, local factors, such as processing the signal, is so small that it would not be visible to the scope operator. A compromising point is the use of IFF/SIF, where the Transponder on the target must accept the challenge and then respond-and the KY-118/KY-119/KY120 must also decode the reply before it can paint on the scope, hence the IFF/SIF paints trailing the radar paint. While on the subject-how many recall the premise of MTI, the bane of all attending the 30332 course at Keesler?


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Paul Hager
Email: phager AT ma.rr.com

649th AC&W, 912 AC&W, + Dauphin Island AC&W.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

A 7-level screwdriver is hereby issued for M.K. Staton on his memory. “On Oct. 26, 1971, a Cuban aircraft landed in New Orleans after flying completely undetected through American airspace. Publicity and political pressure from Louisiana Congressman R. Edward Hebert forced the Air Force to redeploy aircraft and radars. Subsequently, the Air Force established the Southeast Air Defense Sector and reopened a radar network along the Gulf coast,” from “Searching the Skies: The Legacy of the United States Cold War Defense Radar Program” by David F. Winkler, for the U.S. Air Force Air Combat Command, June 1997. The President, of course, was Richard M. Nixon. That same year Intel introduced the first microprocessor, which would have profound later implications for electronics. I read someplace Intel was a shortened version of INTegrated ELectronics, but I’m not sure that’s true. (I think a Cuban fighter landed in Florida, too, a matter of some concern since RN frequented Key Biscayne.)


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Chuck Sunder
Email: chucksunder AT hotmail.com

Right you are, Gary....here`s some history I found on the internet: `In 1968, Bob Noyce and Gordon Moore were two unhappy engineers working for the Fairchild Semiconductor Company who decided to quit and create their own company at a time when many Fairchild employees were leaving to create start-ups. People like Noyce and Moore were nicknamed the `Fairchildren`. Bob Noyce typed himself a one page idea of what he wanted to do with his new company, and that was enough to convince San Francisco venture capitalist Art Rock to back Noyce`s and Moore`s new venture. Rock raised $2.5 million dollars in less than 2 days. The name `Moore Noyce` was already trademarked by a hotel chain, so the two founders decided upon the name `Intel` for their new company, a shortened version of `Integrated Electronics`.


08/12/2004 00:00:00

Name: Ed Crofoot
Email: ecrofoot AT newnorth.net

Hi I have been reading with interest about the Radar Mile. Later after Air Force time (303x2)I went to work for Bendix Fld. Eng. Corp and spent a number of years on the Deep Space Network and a same type time line was used to calculate event times. RTLT ( round trip light time). Needless to say the times and distances were a lot greater tracking spacecraft into Deep Space . Hours and min. Also while teaching Radar to the VNAF the radar mile was somthing they had a hard time comprehending


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

I think I learned way back when, that 12.36 usec was a radar nautical mile, Gary, and 10.7 usec was a statute radar mile. We used 10.7 when I went to school in 1949, but that was changed sometime later. A radar mile being the time it took the pulse to go out to the target and return to the antenna and be displayed.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

`ELI the ICE man` was how we remembered that voltage (E) preceeded current (I) through an inductor (L) and vice versa through a capacitor (C). Come on, Gary, we could`ve answered these in our sleep! Bud, 12.36usec was the out `n back time only. It did not include any time required to display the target. While this may seem trivial, keep in mind that the time required to process and display a target was increased to several PRTs with the development of MTI.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: MSgt Don Kerby (retired)
Email: wyldman2112 AT msn.com

I hate to jump off topic like this, but I recently discovered some news that I find incredibly alarming, and am spreading the word to all veterans any way I can: Did any of you guys know that our own U.S. House of Representatives (nine democrats, to be precise) spawned a letter to the United Nations requesting they send observers to monitor our U.S. Presidential elections this year? The SecGen of the UN turned them down, so they went on to pressure the State Department to make the request for them again. End result is that a European organization is currently planning the logistics of sending monitors to US polling sites to ensure a fair election. I discovered my own Rep (Raul Grijalva) was one of the signatories of that original letter, and have sent him correspondence condemning this action. I don`t know about you guys, but as a veteran sworn to protect this nation, this act of betrayal enrages me.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Two more cigars, please, for the respondents to the two trivia questions concerning the radar mile and ELI the ICE man. Tougher questions? The President is commander in chief. One and only one President commanded troops himself in the field after (note: after, not before) he was President. Who? A Cuban aircraft once landed in New Orleans after flying completely undetected through U.S. airspace. The resultant flap led the Air Force to set up the Southeast Air Defense Sector. Who was President when this occurred? Bonus: Who was the television chef who once was a `radar mechanic,` with a decidedly mixed, short military career?


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

To clarify the first question below, by `after` is meant `after he became President,` that is, during his term of office.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Dave Williams
Email: dnwdfw AT comcast.net

GATR site Patrick AFB, FL 76-78. Great times.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: David Masoner
Email: cowtowner AT gbronline.com

Spent a tour at 4629th Sage Sq at Luke 1960-64 A year at the King (705th ) 64-65 Two tours at Eglin with a tour to Ban Me Thuot between Eglin Tours. Would like to hear from anyone at Luke or elsewhere who was in Ops.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

Your correct, Harvey. After I sent the msg I realized that last statement was incorrect. I was to tired to send another, so thought I`d wait until tonight to send out a correction. After thinking about it for awhile, I began to wonder where in the system is the beginning of the `radar mile` and where was the end of that `mile`. The basic pulse is sent from the transmitter thru the duplexer/waveguide system to the feedhorn where it is radiated toward the antenna reflector that sends it out into space. When the leading edge of the pulse hits a target, it is reflected back (at a much lower power) to the antenna reflector and bounces back to the feedhorn and down the waveguide to the duplexer and down to the radar receiver. Where does the `radar mile` start and where does it end?? If I learned that in radar school I sure can`t remember, but, then again, I can`t remember what I had for breakfast today. Any idea`s anyone? Am just curious.


08/11/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

A 7-level screwdriver to an e-mail correspondent has answered the bonus trivia question below: Graham Kerr, the “Galloping Gourmet,” who wrote, “At 18 I was called up to serve Her Majesty the Queen as a radar mechanic – as befitted my career with food and wine. Selected as officer material – I failed and bashed pans in a greasy 1,500-man kitchen for three months. My army career did not have an especially smooth passage. Four thoroughly petty convictions resulted in ‘guilty as charged’ each time. 1) For sending Yorkshire pudding to the Ministry of Health to be analyzed; 2) For having whitewash poured over me in a shower; 3) For refusing to teach Army cooks how to prepare classical French garnishes; 4) For laughing at the colonel when he tripped over his sword on the Coronation Parade. It became clear that though I had reached captain’s rank – I was simply not very well disciplined. We parted company …” Elsewhere here has been noted at Keesler flunking out of tech school met in some cases being a cook. Perhaps it`s a universal.


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: CMSgt (Ret.) Steve Spirnak
Email: sgtpepper13 AT earthlink.net

Ref. Harvey`s 08/08: Hear, Hear! Because of this site, I received an E-mail out of the blue--something to the effect of `Just wanted to see how you`ve been the last 35 years.` A blast from the past from another Scope Dope at Paris Control at Tan Son Nhut. Press on, gang--I`m enjoying the conversations, even though I wouldn`t know a circuit board from a promotion board. The messages have taken a different turn this summer, and I like the interaction. Give up, at least, the first year`s dues to see how you like it! Kudos to Gene and crew. Sierra Sierra (actually, I used to say `Double S` and then get my ass chewed for improper comm procedures).


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: MSgt Harvey Hartman (Still hoping to eventually retire!)
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Chief Spirnak, Actually what has happened this summer is that a few of us have turned this `Guest Book` into more of a Bulletin Board in that it is somewhat more `Back when I was in AC&W...` and not so much `Hi, I visited this website.` There is probably a good justification for two separate message boards but chances are good that visitors may leave a message at one but not the other and both forms of messages are probably welcomed. This site was created `to preserve the memory` and that is done by people jotting down their thoughts and memories (and even the simple `Hi, I was stationed at...` notes) for others to see. Tom and Gene have created one of the finest websites for our little niche of the Cold War, and its aging heroes of yesteryear, and the rest of us can make it better by logging in and adding our two cents to history. And if it helps to reunite a few old friends, then what could be better? By the way, I was `Hilton Hotel.` Not completely ICAO but it worked. Harvey


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: Chuck Sunder
Email: chucksunder AT hotmail. com

Last Memorial Day I received an email from an old fellow Airman that I was stationed with at Sparrevohn, AK, in 1955. When I got the email from `Glen` it was quite a feeling. It was the first contact I have gotten from anyone who was there when I was there. Glen and I both worked in the Comm Center in a drafty quonset hut. So I would say that greeting old friends from yesteryear is an important part of this website. The most important? I`ll leave that up to everyone else to decide. It sure made my day on Memorial Day, 2004.


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: David E. Casteel
Email: davidecasteel AT yahoo.com

Gary Jacobs asked the trivia question: `What is the cursor on a slide rule`, and I have not seen a response. The cursor on a slide rule is the small transparent device containing a hairline that is perpendicular to the long axis of the tool. It is affixed to a pair of runners such that it is capable of sliding along the rule independent of the interior slide. In use, it is slid to a point aligned with a particular value on either the fixed or sliding scales and used as a reference to read the corresponding position value on another scale. On complex rules, it is often used to allow referencing related values on scales on opposite sides of the rule (by insuring that the dual cursor hairlines are properly aligned with each other) as well as between fixed scales and those on the slide.


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jac obs
Email: GAJ7702 AT aol.com

To Mr. Casteel for correctly answering the trivia question, `Where and what was the cursor on a slide rule?, give that man a cigar! A radar-related trivia question: What was (is) a common radar measure that is approximately 12.4 microseconds? (I learned it as 12.5, but the reference I checked was 12.4, close enough for government work.) Bonus: What is the significance of this phrase: ELI the ICE man? Hint: It was a


08/10/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

... mnemonic phrase. (see below)


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Joel Treshansky
Email: jtreshan AT aol.com

Took only 30-40 years to run across this site. I saw some familiar names from long ago - not too many with 10 letters . Email address is current, and yes, I`m still working, and probably will be as long as I am able.


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

In reply to Walt Martley, I agree with a lot of what you said. The `Instant Gratification Generation` seems to be focused on (DANGER: Metaphors ahead!) arriving at the destination with little concern for the immense amount of pleasure that the journey itself can often provide. (Where getting it fixed is the destination and the troubleshooting is the journey.) While this is usually blamed on the lack of patience of our younger generation, it may also be the result of too little time to stop and smell ALL of the roses in a day. Maybe we, as parents of this new generation, helped to create this. School 0800-1500, additional tutoring (so our little darlings can get into an ivy league attorney school) 1530-1630, then soccer, piano lessons, ballet for the girls and golf lessons for the boys (or vice versa) and then it`s home for 2-3 hours of homework. And yes, I too get frustrated when I call in to a manufacturer`s tech assist line only to find out that the `expert` is not much better than I am. We can blame this on the `do more with less` practice of modern business which means: Don`t expect a computer engineer on the other end of the phone when the manufacturer is only paying that person $5.15 per hour! Frankly I blame US, the consumers (including myself) because we showed the manufacturers back in the 1970s that we would rather pay a low price and get a cheaper (disposable) product than pay a higher price and get a good, repairable product along with product support from the manufacturer. And don`t get me started on the cattle cars we call air travel these days! And the way kids drive on the way to their piano lessons! And whatever happened to good Saturday morning cartoons with heroes that we could look up to like Bullwinkle or Under Dog? (Give me a minute, the valium should be working soon. I`ll be alright.)


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Lewis A. Meyer
Email: lameyer3 AT comcast.net

I served as a radar tech from 1955 to 1959 at 632nd AC&W in Roanoke Rapids, N. C. and 912th AC&W located on Pinetree line at Ramore, Ont. Canada. Discharged Aug. 1959 as E-5 and returned to my home in Mobile, Alabama where I again worked for the Air Force as a civilian. The pinetree line has a web site and regularly holds reunions-the last one was this year in Biloxi, MS and included Keesler instructors. I am now retired(as most my age are) and was reunited with an old friend (Ralph Grunlund) who I served with in Canada, when he passed through Mobilke on his way to Florida. Very enjoyable experience!


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Willi Gutmann
Email: willi.g AT comcast.net

My father was flight mechanic with a thick German accent working for Wheeler and Nordair Airlines. I grew up hearing stories of his adventures on the DEW lines in Canada and Greenland. It`s awesome to be able to read about area like Cape Dyer, Greenland, Sondrestrom and the like. Pictures of the aircraft he maintained under those brutal conditions (and bet his life on and others) were just wonderful to see. Thank you so very much , his son Willi G. Gutmann


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: mike huffaker
Email: michaelwhuffaker AT msn.com

served at opheim afs in 70s


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: TOM REEVES
Email: tlreeves AT sbcglobal.net

Was radar operator at 745th AC&W Sq. at perrin AFB 1966-67. I was on `A` shift under MSGT Matherly. Went to Keflavik Iceland from Perrin and worked in OPCON, 1968. Then on to Eglin AFB where I worked in `WOLFCALL` control.


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Page
Email: Historian AT radomes.org

To Harvey Hartman, Jeff States, John Tianen, Gary Jacobs, and everyone else: Thank you very much for the participation, kind words, and occasional suggestions for monetary donations. We are in need of help in *other* areas, too. For one thing, Gene urgently needs an Assistant Webmaster. If anyone out there is interested and has the time / experience, please contact Gene directly. For another, we can always use historic (vintage) photos and recent photos of radar sites and command/control sites that we already don`t have pictures of. We especially need help from all you old Gap-Filler Radar guys. Photos, past and present, are needed. Also, in a few cases, we still need help in locating a few gap-filler sites. Please take a look at the pages for sites you have first-hand knowledge of; if we are missing information, or have errors, please bring such to our attention. If you have photos, please let us know how we may obtain copies. Visit local libraries, museum, historical societies, etc., and see if they have anything of interest in their archives. Many of you are in a position to help if only you would. Thank you all very much in advance. Let`s keep up the fun! -- Tom


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jorge Carranza Torres
Email: negro AT datamarkets.com.ar

i`m argenian controler in a TPS 43


08/09/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: GAJ7702 AT AOL.COM

When I got to Keesler in 1971, I heard some senior NCOs say the Air Force was headed to ruination because of, among other things, doing away with KP. “We got civilians carrying trays for airmen! Welcome to the new country club Air Force …” I imagine it is a continuing theme, “back in the day” versus “today.` The airmen, equipment, skills have (and will) change. I recall being amazed looking at an AWACS display in Saudi Arabia during the Iran-Iraq war and thinking back to the SAGE days. Perhaps about 30 years hence some veterans will be writing, “These new guys don’t remember what it was like during Gulf War I, when we had real equipment …” Alas, don’t know of any gap-filler locations. Knew some guys who worked on them.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Look folks, here`s the deal. While you and I are justifiably proud of our ability to read a resistor color code and wield a mean soldering iron, the naked truth of today`s electronics is that they are so advanced, few people outside of the factory can work on them. You and I and the rest of the world have been asking for more powerful devices with more functions yet in smaller packages and we willingly traded our ability to fix this new stuff for these new features. Let`s face it: Would we rather give up our incredibly-magical laptop computers and go back to the telephone booth-sized computers of the 1960s (which could only add, subtract, multiply and divide) just because we could fix them using nothing more than a soldering iron and pipe wrench? Probably not. Our modern electronics devices are made of multi-layered circuit boards with surface mount components that are not repairable with the tools and skills that we learned at Keesler so long ago. Does that diminish the skills that we were taught back then? Not on your life! Does that mean that the current crop of USAF Radar Troops is less skilled than we were just because they can`t recite tube theory? Nope to that too. Today`s Keesler graduates are just as highly trained as we were, only in different ways. You and I knew tubes and RF cable. The new kids know microprocessors and fiber optics because that`s what they NEED to know now. Radar has changed a lot since we were stationed on those remote sites so many years ago. Due to the gigantic advancements in electronics over the years, the current generation of radar systems have a failure rate so small that the majority of the sites are unmanned these days. And when something does break, a technician is airlifted out to R&R a disposable (non-repairable) circuit board for a fraction of the cost of maintaining a 24/7 on-site 20 man maintenance workforce like we used to be. Brothers (and sisters) be proud of what we did back then! But don`t look down on today`s radar troop just because he wasn`t taught about amplidynes and spark gaps.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Jeff States
Email: psu68 AT psualum.com

Harvey Hartman got it right. Speaking for those who operated the machinery that many of you repaired and maintained, time and progress has made what we all did interesting...but mostly to ourselves!! That is not to diminish or degrade anything that we all did. It is just a fact that has to be accepted. That, of course, is the real beauty of the Radomes web site. This site allows us to share memories with others who served, operated and repaired during the cold war. We were all `the best` at what we did...then. Today`s troops are equally `the best` at what they do...now. Remember, quite literally, they are operating in a different century then we did. So, sit back, relax and enjoy Radomes and the opportunity it affords all of us. And, by the way, send that check and join...it`s the very least you can do.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Kenneth W. Leoutsacos
Email: leoutsac AT mindspring.com

For all who may have gone through the Radar Maintenance course at Keesler in 1961-1962, I just want to tell you of my first visit with a buddy that I had not seen in 42 years. His name is Jimmy A. Wallace of Cherokee, Alabama. He and I were as close as brothers back then, but we lost touch with each other. I found him via `People Search` on YAHOO. Now that I`m retired, I made the trip from Connecticut to see him. It was like no time had past. We called each other by the nicknames that we had when were 19 year olds at Keesler. Upon graduating, Jimmy served at a Radar site in Greenland and then at the Direction Center in Montgomery, Alabama; I, of course being from New England, served at the 759th Radar Squadron at Nasalle, Washington and then at the 777th Radar Squadron at Requa, California. We had an enjoyable reunion. Maybe some of you knew us, I just wanted to write and let you know that we are still around and kicking.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

For Kenneth W. Leoutsacos: Good for you, sir! Like you, I have restarted a few `Active Duty Friendships` that I once swore would never end (but the realities of military PCSs proved otherwise.) And this wonderful website helped that happen! Thanks Tom & Gene. You have very little idea of the good that the two of you`ve created! Folks, it`s been said here before. This website, as wonderful as it is, costs money to run and the `optional` dues are extremely cheap! Please join, or just send a donation if you don`t want to become a member.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Walt Martley
Email: bettyandwalt AT earthlink.net

For Harvey Hartman: Another thought on the `they can`t do it anymore` thing. My own experience based on 45 years of more or less continuous digital electronic experience, starting with the FST-2 `Data Transmission Set`, and some years of dabbling with PCs in retirement,is that as the electronics have become more packaged, the intellectual interest of the technician has become less. Where is the challenge to dig deep, if you only need to follow a fault tree to it`s logical conclusion? The younger people I have come in contact with, as a rule, have no incentive to learn `why` or `how`, only to seek out `what`, and get on with the next thing. And, who is left to write the fault tree for the next generation of devices, if techs are only taught to follow?. In fact, one can see the result of this thinking in the tech support sections of commercial electronics suppliers. What per cent of your calls for assistance have been frustrated by some young person leading you through a drill that he is obviously reading from a checklist that is aimed at the least common denominator of troubleshooting, and with which he is also obviously not too familiar?


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: Carl Johnson
Email: carlfjohnson AT bellsouth.net

My Radar service was in the 608th AC&W Sq. on a mountaintop near K18 Kangnung, Korea during the Korean War 1951-53. Greetings to all who watched the skies.


08/08/2004 00:00:00

Name: David Haas
Email: daje2 AT juno.com

Any one who knew me between years 1949-1970 in radar, first Sgt, recruiter and more, feel free to contact me.


08/07/2004 00:00:00

Name: Tom Bower
Email: bower AT camasnet.com

Hey Guys, Glad to hear you fellers stories about the trouble shooting at the component level. A lot of those days of the intellectual savy are gone. Now it`s `what did the machine tell you before it died`. I am responsible for all the electronic equip here at our very small (30 bed) local hospital. I started in here 91 and at that time we had a lot of stuff from the 60`s & 70`s that were not supported by the factory any more but we kept it going until the `FDA` said `no more`, so we had to trash a bunch of good equipment that was built with the quality which we may never see again. The handheld `fire` button went to hell on the old x-ray machine a while back and I stole a micro switch from the candy machine in the cafeteria to get it goin again. A short time later a 2D21 tube from the photo-timer went to hell and I snuck up to home to steal the 2D21 tube that controlled the tremolo speed in my guitar amp to get it going again. We just recently replaced that machine with a new micro proccessor controlled unit. It seems to work o.k. but in the shake down cruise a lot of really weird stuff was going on with it. The techs culdn`t figure it out but I took a long shot and replaced the new electronic ballasts in the fluorescent lighting in the room and adjacient rooms back to the old magnetics. -Problem solved. The electronic ballasts run at a freq. of 40 khz or so. Some of the control functions must have been at that freq or a harmonic of that and was transmitted by common wave through the feed line. One of the techs asked me what a harmonic was and I got so dumbfounded as to where to start the explanation of it I just to go away and find a beer. Day ended!! A lot of my time now is consummed not by trouble shooting but by talking to a factory rep who dont know the diff between a scope probe and a guitar pick and wants nothing more than to get you off the phone. I guess I`ll just head to the ham shack and build another class AB amp to keep the old time spirits up. I like your stories of the old times of electronics where techs were techs and factory reps were scared. Any questions on the old Cottonwood ID. AFS station are welcome. Just shoot me an e-mail and I`ll do my best to comply. Carry on Guys, tom KB7VOL


08/07/2004 00:00:00

Name: Gary Jacobs
Email: gaj7702 AT aol.com

Thanks to all who have commented on the various topics I have raised or responded to thread items. The blog is interesting and frequently entertaining. A few items come to mind. Perhaps technology has made everything easier, yet less accessible to repair. Remember when cars had gauges as opposed to “indicator lights?” It’s far more useful to know if oil pressure is low via a gauge versus zero when the light comes on. But most people are happier not to have to learn about pressure and take their cars to elsewhere for maintenance. (If that light comes on they likely get a new car.) Remember slide rules? We were told they would not be used at Keesler. Math was to be done by hand. Show your work. (Trivia question: Where and what was the cursor on a slide rule? It had one.) In about 1973, a friend from the 26A Tower walked into my dorm room and showed me a wonder: A handheld calculator. Math was now instantaneous and more accurate than a slide rule. But instead of subtracting, you had to add a negative number. I bet now tech schools allow their use, if not a laptop. Finally with uniforms, if unlike the Marines and Army, the new AF garrison fatigues are not meant for field use, this means, of course, that the AF has to develop some “field fatigues.” This strikes me as a poor choice, although I understand the current fatigue uniform is a “test.” If it’s adopted, other services will come to duty ready for war. AF guys will have to go home and change. The LA Times in Aug. 7 Business Section headlined, “Unmanned aircraft gaining in Pentagon’s confidence; A third of military fleet by be remote-controlled by 2010.” I wonder if a special IFF/SIF code will tell controllers no one’s on board? Finally, back to the “2001” movie in 1968. I recall reading an article that no computer would ever be able to play chess because of the huge number of possible moves as the game progresses. (I read a 40-game move has 10 to the one-hundred-and-twentieth power possible board positions.) Now my computer routinely beats me at chess, although I will make no claims as to how hard that is. Electronics marches on. Like the blog? Support it, join Radomes. (Sometime we`ll have to address associated radar fields like hydraulics that nodded the heighfinder, the inflatable radomes, airlocks and the dreaded `low pressure` warning horn; the liquid cooling system for 26A klystrons and its seemingly endless copper pipes that one polished ... over and over...)


08/07/2004 00:00:00

Name: Walt
Email: bettyandwalt AT earthlink.net

Re: 1973 and the hand-held calculator. I was working on a bunch of PDP-8/11s with paper tape input when a neat junior grade officer brought a HP-35 into the shop and proceeded to emulate everything our machines could do. That was a real watershed in the computing world. We also had an IBM 360 that only the exalted could approach. The miniaturization revolution sure brought on some wonders.


08/07/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bud Egan
Email: wa2qav AT arrl.net

Going back to the IFF discussion, I found a website that has more info on the old IFF systems. It`s quite interesting, and some good reading for curious old souls like me. The site is by an Australian named Colin MacKinnon (Amateur Radio Call VK2DYM). The address is www.qsl.net/vk2dym/index.htm. When you get to the site, scroll down to the radar section and click on the IFF box. Enjoy!!


08/04/2004 00:00:00

Name: MSgt Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Almost all of our beloved remote radar assignments (and this Radomes Museum website) were due to the Soviet-American Cold War of the 1950s-1980s. Check out www.coldwar.org for some very interesting reading.


08/04/2004 00:00:00

Name: Dave Auvil
Email: timingdva AT aol.com

While stationed at Kalispell Mt, I worked in Maintenance Control and when working `swings` or `mids`, I would use the switchboard to call any site in Alaska that I could, and find out if anyone there had family that I could patch them through to. I don`t remember names, but I did successfully patch some people. Anyhow, one morning a very plesant looking lady knocked on the door of my rental trailer, and when my newly wed wife answered the door, this lady ask for me and said she wanted to give something to me. My wife askeed her what, and she handed her a bottle of V.O. and told my wife to give it to me for doing her a `favor`. My wife really got up set until she found out that I had patched a phone call or two from Alaska to this lady and she was just returning the favor. Those were the days!


08/04/2004 00:00:00

Name: Buck Brennan CMSGT RET
Email: buckbre AT earthlink.net

When stationed at the 913 AC&W Paga river Ontario Canada we use to go down the Radar sites to the 799 at Joelton Tenn and get a patch to WLAC Nashville powerful radio station and ask for requests made the mid shifts go a little eaiser.This was in 1957 so Fm was not out but some stations we could pick up like Del RIO TX. we ran the gatar site ragged dialing in stations we could pick up. Phone calls were only for emerg and the site commander would have to make them. If you could get a patch off a 10 line unit more power to them


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

Let`s see, we`ve discussed our memories (dwindling as they may be) of our old fatigue and `1505` uniforms and recently we had a couple of interesting discussions about the technical aspects of the early IFF systems. All good stuff. Now y`all tell me about what it was like to be stationed on a remote site with almost no ability to instantly reach our families back home. I`ll start the discussion by telling you what it was like for me at Campion AFS in Galena, Alaska during the mid 1970s, which was 20 years after many of you served your own remote tours. Even so, the mid 70s was waaaay before the internet, instant messaging, and cell phones so calling our family still wasn`t near as easy as it is today. I remember that all of our dorm rooms had telephones in them but they weren`t connected to the outside world; we had to go down to the Comm Center to place an `outside call` which meant that it was a big pain in the butt. And the Comm Center connection was to be used for emergency purposes only. This meant that our usual means to contact our loved ones was by mail (and sometimes via the MARS network; although by that time it was used very little.) Mail to and from the remote sites back then was usually a 7-10 day trip each way so if your wife told you that your son was getting in trouble at school, you lived in agony for several weeks before you received her mailed reply to your mailed questions. By then, your son could`ve gone to prison! I was lucky in that my family did not experience any calamities during my absence but I do remember several instances when some of my fellow dewliners were in total agony waiting to find out what was going on at home! Naturally, the depressing nature of the cold Alaskan winters made a lack of contact with the family back home much worse. Just before I rotated back to the states in `77, we were given the ability to establish a billing account with the Comm Center so we could call home from our room phones and reimburse the government for the minutes we talked. That probably did more to improve the morale of remote duty than anything else. (Except, maybe, for the low cost stereo and camera equipment that we could mail order through the BX!) The kids today have no idea of what it was like for us back in the `old days.` (Heck, few of them have even experienced the horror of non-remote control TV!) Now I`d like to hear your experiences.


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Michael Staton
Email: michael_staton AT msn.com

My first remote 71-72 was on Miyako Jima, Okinawa. we could only pick up AFradio at night, no stateside calls, no TV. We had movies 3(?)nights a week from AAFEES and we `traded` movies with the coast guard on a weekly basis. We had a great club and great people. Some of the stereos were huge. All in all, a very good remote.


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Wm. Shaw
Email: wjshaw2 AT juno.com

Since you `maintainence` types have been posting most of the messages in recent weeks, it reminded me of a couple of stories. While pulling a mid-shift one night, our site, the 911th, had a situation where we could receive the voice transmissions from a Fighter Pilot operating in our area, but he couldn`t hear us. Or vis versa. All in all, not a good situation. As I had just been relieved from in front of the scope and was on break for awhile, an Airman from Communication and Relay Repair, who was working alone, asked me to help him trouble shoot a bunch of equipment. All of the stuff we needed to test was in a seperate building outside of our operations building. In spite of knowing nothing about maintainence, and the fact that it was colder than a witch`s tit, with temperatures below zero and the ice and snow a foot thick or more and winds blowing big time, I gave it a shot. He gave me a crash course in using a piece of test equipment, maybe an ohm meter or volt meter or some other type meter. He showed me what the proper readout should be when I placed the two little probes at either end of each resistor or transistor or whatever, and told me to give a yell when I found one that didn`t readout in the proper range. Well luck would have it, I found the faulty little resistor or whatever, and he changed it out. Problem solved. Another little aside. When I first arrived topside for my first ever shift as a radar operator, some older maintainence types, Sgts, sent me looking for SIF paint, saying they were running low. Was I the only one who ever fell for that one?


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Harvey Hartman
Email: harvey.hartman AT txelli.ang.af.mil

To Michael Staton (08/03/2004): I remember that our only `live` connection with the outside world was also through AFRN. It came to us from Elmendorf AFB via phone lines and was put on the air with a small AM transmitter in a room off our Orderly Room. It probably had a range of maybe fifteen miles but then there wasn`t much beyond that distance anyway. Charlie Tuna was one of our favorite jocks (I believe he operated out of Los Angeles) and we all looked forward to the daily installments of the Chicken Man and Tooth Fairy serials. Like your site, we also received film movies (4, I believe) each week, mailed in from Elmendorf. Galena AB (nine miles from Campion AFS) had a small AFRTS television station but it didn`t have an external feed other than the AFRN audio. The station had a modest collection of bad movies but also benefitted from about 30 hours of programming mailed in each week. Naturally, most of the `current` TV shows (Carol Burnette, MASH, etc) were running a couple of months behind the Lower 48 but we still enjoyed them. Since it was a low power black & white signal, no one had a really good TV; usually a multi-year-old hand-me-down clunker. In the land of terrific hunting, fishing, and drinking, not too many guys watched TV anyway.


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Glenn Widner
Email: gwwidner AT bellsouth.net

At Murphy Dome, we had a lottery on Saturday and Sunday nights to see what order we could use the outside line to call back home. The parents of my future wife were the understanding type being in the Eastern time zone, and knew I had to be sincere to use my 5 minutes to call their daughter. 34 years being married proved them right. I would sometimes use the secure lines(illegal) to call a friendly nearby Army base operator and have an outside call made, and have to hang up abruptly if that line was needed. We GIs were resourseful.


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: Chuck Sunder
Email: chucksunder AT hotmail.com

During the hard winter of 55 at Sparrevohn, AK, the weather was extremely bad for sometime. Aircraft couldn`t get out to our garden spot. No mail for a couple weeks. We were out of beer. Even the food basics were getting low. We did, however, have a surplus of lemon jello....why I don`t know. Anyhow, at EVERY meal, we had lemon jello as a side dish. One of the top tunes in 55 was `The Yellow Rose of Texas`. So someone substituted words in the song. I only remember a few: `....it was the yellowest yellow jello that Sparrevohn ever seen...it shimmied when I shook it, it really tasted keen.`


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: John Tianen
Email: jtianen AT earthlink.net

For some unknown reason, the radar maintenance crew also ran the movie theater at the Rockville, Iceland radar site. We were paid $25.00/month for those duties. We showed a movie at 6:00PM and one at midnight. We had to make a daily movie run to the NATO base at Keflavik. We got our movies from the Navy after they had spent several months being transferred between ships at sea. As such, the movies could be in pretty bad shape when we got them. We had to visually inspect and repair each reel before showing. That meant we had to cut out sections of bad film and splice together as best we could. For example, the movie might be in the middle of a battle scene and we would have to cut out several feet of bad film and splice to the next good section. The end result was that one second they would be viewing a battle and the next second the hero would be kissing his girl. The audience would really get pissed at those times. If the film appeared to have any `skin` we would boldly post `skin flick` on the bulletin board and we always knew we would have a full house. Of course, skin flicks of the 60`s were nothing like the porno flicks available today. Every once in a while we would start a rumor that a Danish aircrew had flown in some real `hardcore` from Denmark and that they had loaned the movie to us. All day long, guys would come up to us to substantiate the rumor. We would just tell them to show up and see for themselves. When we showed our usual `G` rated movie, they would hoot and scream for our blood for fooling them. But admission to the movies was only a dime, so they weren`t out that much.


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: David E. Casteel
Email: davidecasteel AT yahoo.com

On 24 July, Gary Jacobs wrote: `Let`s not forget trouble-shooting the old way. Instead of a computer telling you where the fault is and swapping out a circuit card....` In the 1960s, this exact process was being used in maintenance of the AN/FSQ-7 and -8 SAGE computers--the machine in `standby` mode ran diagnostic programs that varied voltages within the equipment and logged statistics on the results of doing so; then tables were consulted and the programs reported on `pluggable units` that were expected to fail very soon and those were replaced with stock `good` units and the removed ones were taken to the lab for diagnosis and repair. And this was during the days of vacuum tubes! I was one of the first USAF officers to take over maintenance of the AN/FSQ-7 machine (one of 3 crew leaders) at DC-13, POADS, Adair AFS, Oregon in 1962. I had formerly been at the 689th AC&W Sqdn (aka RADRON) at Mt. Hebo AFS, Oregon and was the first Radar Maintenance Officer for the AN/FPS-24 radar (among others). Regards to all, Dave


08/03/2004 00:00:00

Name: David E. Casteel
Email: davidecasteel AT yahoo.com

On 24 July, Gary Jacobs wrote: `Let`s not forget trouble-shooting the old way. Instead of a computer telling you where the fault is and swapping out a circuit card....` In the 1960s, this exact process was being used in maintenance of the AN/FSQ-7 and -8 SAGE computers--the machine in `standby` mode ran diagnostic programs that varied voltages within the equipment and logged statistics on the results of doing so; then tables were consulted and the programs reported on `pluggable units` that were expected to fail very soon and those were replaced with stock `good` units and the removed ones were taken to the lab for diagnosis and repair. And this was during the days of vacuum tubes! I was one of the first USAF officers to take over maintenance of the AN/FSQ-7 machine (one of 3 crew leaders) at DC-13, POADS, Adair AFS, Oregon in 1962. I had formerly been at the 689th AC&W Sqdn (aka RADRON) at Mt. Hebo AFS, Oregon and was the first Radar Maintenance Officer for the AN/FPS-24 radar (among others).


08/02/2004 00:00:00

Name: Ralph Rooney
Email: flt16051 AT yahoo.com

626th AC&W (F-10) Alaska Oct51 to Nov 52. I was station Powerman mid shift.Arrived at the Detachment in Oct moved into tentstill 2 days before Christmas. The day we moved into the barracks it was 45 below zero. Hve located only three that I served with(one has passd away) Anyone from our old Site can reach me at flt16051@yahoo.com.Hope to find some of you old `Sour Dough`s` (Sour on the country and no dough to go) Ralph Rooney Florida


08/01/2004 00:00:00

Name: Arnold Hooper
Email: _hooru_ AT midmaine.com

Anyone from 666th, Mt Tam,,,,932nd, Rockville, Iceland or 964th, McClellan AFB ? If so drop me a line. Hoop


08/01/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Vincent
Email: bayoubark AT bellsouth.net

Keesler-Biloxi,Mississippi 12/57-3/58,765th Charleston AFS,Maine 4/58-8/59, 852nd Mt.Santa Rosa,Guam M.I. 8/59-8/60, 780th Fortuna, North Dakota 8/60-8/61, Minot AFB,North Dakota 8/61 realeased from active duty................


08/01/2004 00:00:00

Name: Bob Vincent
Email: bayoubark AT bellsouth.net

Keesler-Biloxi,Mississippi 12/57-3/58,765th Charleston AFS,Maine 4/58-8/59, 852nd Mt.Santa Rosa,Guam M.I. 8/59-8/60, 780th Fortuna, North Dakota 8/60-8/61, Minot AFB,North Dakota 8/61 realeased from active duty................